6 50 1396 https://highway89.org/files/original/6f6c0e97fba6e59f7904091c75888862.pdf d7a2d7e787119890ac2a9c3d2ab387a6 PDF Text Text December 1 , 1961 Mr. S . G. M rryman, Man ger Timber and Western Lands Northern Pacific Railway Co ., Seattle , Washington Dear Mr. Merryman: Attached is a statem nt hieh I hope you will find of interest-- contribution of th College and th Extension Services to ard bett r land us , pecifically dS it r lates o rOdd construction . It is our hope that it will contribute to a b tt r und rstanding of one of the many complexities of highway planning_ Sincerely yours, J. Whitn y Floyd , Dedn College of Forest , ange, and Wildlif Mansq m nt JHBsep e enclosure � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1750">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1750</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Checksum 446329421 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 551691 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from J. Whitney Floyd to S. G. Merryman, December 1, 1961 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from J. Whitney Floyd, Dean College of Forest, Range, and Wildlife, to S. G. Merryman, Northern Pacific Railway Co., on December 1, 1961 about the Road Construction and Resource Use statement. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Floyd, J. Whitney Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Merryman, S. G. Subject The topic of the resource Traffic engineering Roadside improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Seattle (Washington) King County (Washington) Washington United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1960-1969 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, 14.7.17 Box 8, College of Natural Resources, Dean's Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14717Bx8Fd20_Item 8.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/44186100bae44ec54de6b2fd8e6ae351.pdf 919eb952a79f67e37e2cbbb839d5930e PDF Text Text Dec rob r 2, 1961 Dr. Daryl Chase , President Utah state University Campus D r Presi ent Ch. s : ttached are fifte copi s of our printed list tement on Road Construction ~nd Resource Use". We suggest th..l.t copies be for rd d with your card to the Utah congressional del gation--Senators Moss and Bennett, nd epresentatives King and Pet rson. Also to S cr tary ' of Commerc Luther Hodg s , Secretary of griculture Oe ville Freeman, and Secretary of the Interior stewart Ud 11. I m today transmitting copies to bure u chiefs within these dgencies. Sincerely yours, J. Whitney Floyd, Dean College of For st , Range , and Wildlife Management JHB:ep Attachm nts-lS � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1752">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1752</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Checksum 1379519837 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 556179 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from J. Whitney Floyd to Daryl Chase, December 2, 1961 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from J. Whitney Floyd to Daryl Chase, December 2, 1961 discussing the Statement on Road Construction and Resouce Use and its dissemination to the Utah congressional delegation. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Floyd, J. Whitney Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Chase, Daryl Subject The topic of the resource Traffic engineering Roadside improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon Logan Canyon (Utah) Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Logan (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1960-1969 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, 14.7.17 Box 8, College of Natural Resources, Dean's Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14717Bx8Fd20_Item 5.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/0f44de0e208fb6c9cc1152cc8098bddc.jpg 86232582b9d29af8013574a3f77dc86f Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bell-hop Description An account of the resource Bell-hop at Zion National Park Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ford, Charles Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Sherratt Library, Southern Utah University Subject The topic of the resource Employees Zion National Park (Utah) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Sherratt Library, Southern Utah University Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938 Language A language of the resource eng Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Sherratt Library, Southern Utah University Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource To obtain a copy or scan of this item contact Special Collections, Southern Utah University at specialcoll@suu.edu Type The nature or genre of the resource Image;StillImage Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context SUU_ph18b02f57i43 https://highway89.org/files/original/f13f06a5b943c3b5bf6d961eb5d18aa5.pdf f8032597e018b401ba8d9f52e38b6e54 PDF Text Text MEMORANDUM TO: ID TEAM MEMBERS DATE: March 30,1987 FROM: Cliff Forsgren SUBJECT: Logan Canyon Traffic Forecasts Over the past several months there have been a number of iterations made in attempting to establish a reasonable forecast of traffic through the year 2010. Exponential and linear models and population trends have been used. with varying results. Each Until now all estimates of future traffic flow have been developed using fairly recent data , , (1973 to 1985). Attempts to use past trends as a basis for predicting future traffic volume's have not been completely satisfactory. The wide scatter in the data has resulted numbers that are difficult to Justify from a statistical standpoint. Estimating future traffic volumes based upon proJected population trends is often considered to be a more acceptable method~ after a relationship between population increase and traffic flow has been established. The State Office of Planning and Budget has provided us with the most recent (still unofficial) population forecasts for Northern Utah (attachment 1). They have also provided population data, by county, from 1940 through 1985 <attachment 2). Using this data we have tabulated the �population trend for northern Utah <attachment 3). John Neil has also gone through the UOOT archives and obtained annual traffic data in Logan Canyon from 1937 through 1985 <attachment 4). Prior to 1973 when the permanent counter was installed at Card Guard Station r apparently based upon 7 day~ traffic volumes were 24 hour counts taken quarterly. The annual ADT in the Middle Canyon (assumed at Card Guard Station) has been tabulated and a linear plot fit to the points <attachment 5). Using the long term population trend and the long term traffic trend a relationship was established between the two <attachment 6) and future traffic volumes estimated in each section o£ the Canyon (attachment 7). Past IO team discussions have indicated that it might be preferable to show a spread in the proJected traffic volume rather than trying to settle on a single number. We should compare this information with the forecasts prepared using the more recent data to determine which will give us the more reliable range o£ proJected tra££ic volumes. �ATTACHMENT 1 �· - _. . .. ~ ' - '.' - -- - - RECEiVED MAR 051987 ~ROVlS10HAL MULTI-COUNTY PLANNING DISTRICT AND COUNTY PROJECTIONS BASCO ON UPED-JANUARY 1981 CH2M HILL I SLC --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------YEAR 1990 1995 2000 2005 2010 ANte 1990-201 --------------------------------------_._----_.. _----- ------.--~---.---------------------.--- BEM RIVER BOX [LOrR CACHE RICH NASATOf fRONT DAVIS t()RG~ SALT lM[ TOOElE WEBER KlUNTAlffLAAO SUffllT UTAH WASATCH CENTRAl JUAB HULMO PIUT[ SANPETE SEVIER WAYNE SOUTlf~EST BEAVER GARfiELD IRQ,. uta WASHINGTON UJNTAtI BASIN DAGGETT OUClIESUE UINTAH SOUTHEAST CARBON EMERY GRANO SAN JUAlf 113.000 38.700 72.000 2.300 1.169.000 202.000 5.900 ]6].000 30.300 163.600 285.()OO 13.200 262.100 9.]00 53.700 5,000 10.400 1.500 17.100 11.500 2.200 ]8,600 5.600 4.300 21,800 5.200 41.700 39.300 700 13.900 24.700 55,300 24.000 12.200 6,900 12.200 120.000 40,700 76.900 2.400 1.288.000 .241.300 6,500 832.900 32,700 114.600 293.000 13,800 269.200 10,000 56.200 5.000 10,900 1,500 17,700 18,800 . 2,300 63.300 5.500 4,300 23.100 5,500 44.900 41,200 700 14.500 25.000 55.700 24.300 12.000 7.400 12.000 125.000 41,900 80.]00 2.400 1.377 .000 273.400 1.000 878.100 34.600 . 183.900 291.000 14.100 272.800 10,100 57.500 5.000 11,200 1,500 1'.BOO 19.700 2.300 88,600 5.500 4.300 24.500 5,700 48,600 43.200 700 15.100 21,400 5S.40a 24.300 11.800 1,400 11,900 135.000 44.800 81.600 2.600 1.51'1.000 298.~00 6.200 967.600 38.400 201,200 320,000 15.500 293.40() 11.100 61~1~'0 5,200 12.100 1.600 18.800 21.500 2.500 91.800 5.800 4.600 21.100 6,300 54.000 48.200 800 16,500 30.900 59,800 26.800 12.600 7.900 12.500 151.000 49.700 98.600 2.700 1.686.000 330,OO() 9.600 1.000.300 43.100 223.000 365.000 18.100 334.000 12,900 67,200 5.400 13,200 1.800 20.100 23.900 2.800 110,200 6,400 5.000 30.600 7.000 61,200 55.300 800 18.700 35.800 66.600 30.500 13.700 8.800 13.600 1.46\ 1.26% 1.58% O.CO% 1.85% 2.48\ 2.46% 1.73% 1.18% 1.55\ 1.24\ 1.59\ 1.22% 1.44\ 2.500.000* 1.68's 1~!3% 0.39\ 1.20% 0.92% 0.81\ 1.57% 1.21% 1.70% 0.67.% 0.76\ 1.71% 1.50% 1.94% 1.72' 0.67% 1.49\ 1.87% 0.93% t.2l% 0.58% 1.22% 0.54% --------_ .. -_._-----------------------------------------------------_._.--------------------- STATE TOTAL 1,191,000· 1.940.000- 2.045.000" 2.235.000· -Totals may not add due to rounding SOURCE: Data Resources Section. State Office of Planning &Budget NOTE: These projections ar~ provisional 'n nature. subject to revis1on. An update of these projections Is done yearly tn Jd~uarl. Please contact the Data Resources Section for future updates. �ATTACHMENT · 2 �.f ' : TABLE 14 ESTIMATED UTAH POPULATION BY COUNTY, 1940 - 1970 19~0 ---- ----- --~ 1942 1943 ---- 1944 --.- 1945 ---- 1946 ---- Beaver Box Elder Cache Carbon Daggett 4,908 1~, 980 29,900 18,700 600 5,100 18,400 30,100 17,800 700 4,600 18,200 30,000 18,100 600 3,900 18,300 29,200 19,100 400 4,000 18,300 28,400 21,000 400 4,200 18,200 28,200 22,600 400 4,500 18,700 Davis Duchesne Emery Garfield Grand 15,500 8,700 7,000 5,300 2,200 16,80J 8,900 6,900 5,000 2,000 18,400 8,000 6,600 4,800 2,100 23,80) 7,600 6,000 4,300 2,000 24,700 7,600 5,600 3,900 2,000 8,400 7,400 2,60.0 9,700 2,600 8,300 7,100 2,500 9,100 2,600 8,100 6,400 2,500 8,800 2,700 7,700 5,700 2,400 9',300 3,000 2,200 2,080 213,700 4,600 15,900 2,200 2,30J 213,900 4,600 15 , 300 2,000 2,000 232,200 4,600 14,200 Sevier SummIt Tooele Uintah Utah 12,300 8,600 8,800 10,000 56,900 11,800 8,500 9,300 9,500 56,300 Wasatch Washington Wayne Weber 5,800 9,200 2,300 57,100 552,000 ~~L __ Iron Juab Kane Millard Morgan Piute Rich Salt Lake San Juan Sanpete 19~1 ~ 1947 ... ~ ... .-I...-I .-. 1948 ... ... ~~ - 1949 22,100 400 4,600 19,600 31,000 20,700 300 4,500 19,700 32,500 22,700 300 4,600 20,200 33,500 24,000 300 24,000 7,300 5,300 4,00J 2,100 27,300 7,600 5,200 4,100 2,100' 27,500 7,600 5,200 4,00J 2,000 29,000 7,500 5,600 3,800 1,900 29,600 7,908 . 5,800 4,000 2,0::)0 7,500 5,600 2,200 9,608 2,700 7,300 5,500 2,100 9,800 2,500 8,500 5,900 2,300 9,400 2,500 9,000 5,800 2,300 8,700 2,500 9,000 6,000 2,100 8,600 2,400 9,500 6,000 2,000 1,900. 257,200 4 , 600 13,500 2,000 2,000 238,000 4,300 13,50J 1,800 1,900 226,000 3,500 13,00J 1,800 1,700 259,300 3,700 14,000 1,900 1,400 252,400 3,808 13,80J 2,000 1,300 257,400 3,700 14,008 2,000 1,608 265,000 4,900 13,900 11,300 8,300 14,300 9,300 55,900 10,400 7,700 30,900 8,200 64,700 10,000 7,000 19,700 7,400 68,200 10,300 6,200 20,900 7,400 63,900 11,400 6,600 13,800 8,800 71,300 11,700 6,900 13,100 9,600 75,800 12,300 7,000 14,400 10,300 78,000 12,300 6,800 14,900 10,500 79,000 5,800 9,700 2,400 58,100 5,800 5,600 2,10J 63,700 5,800 8,60J 1,900 79,900 5,600 8,10J 2,000 73,400 5,300 8,300 1,900 75,200 5,800 8,700 1,900 78,400 5,900 8,700 1,700 78,500 5,700 8,700 1,900 80,700 . 5,800 9,800 2,100 81,"100 551,000 575,000 631,000 605,000 591,000 638,000 636,000 653,000 671,000 30~200 2~300 8",900 2,500 ..... State Total ~ �_J _I _ _J _I _J _I _I -, I / ~ TABLE 14 (Continued) ESTIMATED POPULATION OF UTAH BY COUNTY. 1970 1940 April 1, 1950 1950 Census ~~~---- 1951 --- 1952 ---4,500 1953 1954 ---- .- --- .-!.~~~-- 1956 ---- _1957 __ 4,300 20,000 34',90a 22,500 400 4,300 34,900 22,400 400 3,700 5,000 52,700 7,500 5,700 3,700 5,200 56,600 7,300 5,600 3,600 5,600 60,400 7,300 5,600 3,600 6,000 10,100 5,300 2,400 8,800 2,600 10,300 5,200 2,400 8,700 2,700 10,300 5,000 2,500 8,500 2,700 10,400 4,900 2,700 8,200 2,700 10,600 4,700 2,700 8,000 2,700 1,700 1,700 312,200 5,000 12,500 1,700 1,700 330,200 6,000 12,300 1,700 1,700 343,200 6,900 12,000 1,600 1,70:) 352,100 7,800 11,400 1,500 1,700 362,100 8,600 11,000 1,500 1,700 373,600 9,300 11,000 11,300 6,300 18,000 10,300 87,600 11,100 6,10:) 18,000 10,300 89,500 11,200 6,100 18,100 10,600 93,000 11,100 6,000 18,200 10,900 97,000 10,700 5,900 18,000 10,900 100,00:) 10,600 5,800 17,900 11,100 101,700 10,500 5,400 9,600 2,000 91,500 5,300 9,700 2,000 93,000 5,400 10,000 2,000 96,500 5,400 10,200 2,000 100,100 5,400 10,200 1,900 102,000 5,300 10,200 1,80:) n7,00~ 5,400 9,600 2,100 89,60:) 10~,200 : 5,300 10,400 1,7:00 107,800 705,000 724,000 739,000 750,000 783,000 809,000 826,000 845,000 870,00~ 4,400 4,300 19,900 19,600 33,800 34,50· 0 22,900 . 22,80~ 400 400 43,100 7,600 5,700 3,600 2,400 45,800 7,600 5,700 3,700 4,000 ·~9, 2,800 2,000 41,300 7,800 5,800 3,700 2,100 2,500 9,700 5,800 2,300 9,200 2,500 9,700 5,600 2,300 9,100 2,600 9,800 5,500 2,300 9,000 2,600 9,900 5,400 2,300 8,800 2,600 1,911 1,673 274,895 5,315 13,891 • 1,900 1,700 279,000 5,300 13,800 1,900 1,700 285,600 5,100 13,400 1,800 1,700 295,500 5,000 12,900 1,800 1,700 305,000 5,000 12,500 Sevier Summit Tooele Uintah Utah 12,072 6,745 14,636 10,300 81,912 12,000 6,700 15,000 10,300 83,000 11,700 6,500 16,100 10,000 83,000 11,500 6,400 18,000 10,200 85,700 Wasatch Washington Wayne Weber 5,574 9,835 2,205 83,319 5,500 9,800 2,200 85,000 5,400 9,700) 2,100 State Total 688,862 696,000 Davis Duchesne Emery Garfield Grand Iron Juab Kane Millard Morgan Piute Rich Salt Lake San Juan Sanpete 4,856 19,734 A 33 ,536 24,901 364 4,800 19,800 33,600 40~ 4,600 19,800 33,500 24,400 400 30,867 8,134 6,304 4,141 1,903 31,200 8,100 6,300 4,100 1,900 34,600 8,000 6,100 4,000 2,000 38,400 7,900 9,642 5,981 2,299 9,387 2,519 9,700 5,900 2,300 24,80~ 9,30~ 4,30~ 4,300 22,300 35,000 22,0'00 50·:) 4,400 19,700 33,700 23,000 400 Beaver Box Elder Cache Carbon Daggett 1959 1958 --- --- 19,70~ 33,600 23,100 400 5,90~ 000 7,600 5,70~ 20,90~ 23,800 35,400 21,80~ 1,0:)0 5,70~ 17,900 11,300 104,300 ~ 00 �- -- -. -- -., - - ~ -. -. ---- - TABLE 14 (Continued) ESTIMATED POPULATION OF UTAH BY COUNTY, 1940 - 1970 April 1 1960 Census ------- 1950 --- Beaver Box Elder Cache Carbon Daggett 4,331 25,051 35,788 21,135 1,164 4,300 25,50) 36,10) 21,20) 1,20) 4,30J 28,90J 37,40J 20,40J 1,30) Davis Duchesne Emery Garfield Grand 64,760 7,179 5,546 3,577 6,345 55,60::> 7,200 5,50J 3,50) 6,400 Iron Juab Kane 10,795 4,597 2,667 7,856 2,837 Piute Rich Salt Lake San Juan Sanpete 1962 ---- 1956 1967 1968 28,0)0 40,000 17,30J 700 4,100 27,OJJ 40,200 16,90) 600 4,000 26,40::> 40 ,600 16,80) 600 4,0:>0 27,20J 41,20::> 16,400 60J 3,90J 27,600 41,80::> 16,10::> 600 3,800 28,129 42,331 15,647 666 82,OJO 6,700 5,400 3,400 7,500 86,0») 6,50D 5,400 3,400 6,90) 91,OJO 6,50::> 5,300 3,300 6,600 93,OJO 6,70) 5,20D 3,100 6,"lOD 95,00::> 7,0)0 5,20::> 3,10J 6,80J 97,OJO 7,100 5,100 3,10J 6,80) 99,028 7,299 5,137 3,157 6,688 10,700 4,600 2,70) 7,500 3,000 10,600 4,600 2,600 7,30) 3,000 10,700 4,600 2,60J 7,10) 3,20J 11,OJO 4,400 2,400 7,00) 3,30J 11,300 4,400 2,40J 7,OJO 3,400 11,600 4,400 2,400 7,000 3,500 11,900 4,500 2,40J 7,00:> 3,800 12,177 4,574 2,421 6,988 3,983 1,500 1,700 411,800 7,900 11,OJO 1,400 1,700 423,10) 7,600 10,9JO 1,40J 1,60) 429,800 7,80J 10,800 1,400 1,600 436,000 7,900 10,700 1,30) 1,600 443,0)0 8,50) 10,600 1,300 1,600 447,OJJ 8,90J 10,700 1,300 1,(0) 449,0)0 8,900 10,800 1,300 1,600 455,00J 9,300 10,900 1,164 1,615 458,607 9,606 10,976 10,500 5,700 19,100 12,400 112,200 10,400 5,600 20,50J 12,80::> 113,60) 10,100 5,60) 21,30) 13,00) 114,500 9,90J 5,600 21,300 12,80) 114,80) 9,800 5,700 21,000 12,80J 119,000 9,60J 5,80:> 21,000 12,600 124,60) 9,600 5,80) 21,600 12,50J 126,00C> 9,80) 5,9JO 21,800 12,40) 128,0:>0 9,900 5,900 21,600 12,40J 134,600 10·,103 5,879 21,545 - 12,684 137,776 5,3 ') 0 10,400 1,700 112,100 5,40) 10,500 1,700 117,000 5,400 10,400 1,700 118,600 5,40J 10,300 1,700 119,30) 5,600 10,400 1,600 119,700 5,600 10,600 1,600 120,80) 5,700 11,000 1,600 122,500 5,80) 11,600 1,500 123,500 5,800 12,300 1,500 124,500 5,80) 13,0::» 1,500 125,50) 5,863 13,669 1,483 126,278 90J,OJO 936,000 958,000 974,000 978,000 991,000 1,009,000 1,019,00) 1,029,000 1,047,0::>0 1,059,273 ---- ------ -1965 -- 38,700 19,70::> 1,50:> 4,200 31,3-)0 39,40::> 18,700 1,700 4,100 29,500 39,700 17,700 80:> 70,10J 7,200 5,500 3,500 8,10) 75,600 7,100 5,400 3,500 9,000 80,00J 7,000 5,400 3,400 8,50J 10,9JO 4,500 2,700 7,90) 2,8GO 11,200 4,500 2,70) 8,100 3~OOO 11,200 4,500 2,700 7,80J 3,000 1,436 1,685 383,035 9,040 11,053 1,40) 1,70) 387,800 8,90J 11,100 1,500 1,700 402,300 8,700 11,10J Sevier Sum:nit Tooele Uintah Utah 10,565 5,673 17,868 11,582 106,991 10,600 5,700 18,000 11,70) 103,300 Wasatch Washington Wayne ~-1eber 5,308 10,271 1,728 110,744 State Total 890,627 __ ~~l!~_ ~Ii11ard ~organ Source: 1951 ----- 4,300 31,10~ 1963 1964 4,10~ 1 Utah Department of Employment Security. Note: Detail may not add to totals because of rounding. .1 / The State Population estimates were obtained fro~ the Bureau of the Census P-25 Series. 1959 ------ April 1 1970 Census ~ �STATE a: UT&! , J ~t~ .r POPUlATION BY aunY ft"ISI 1970-1t8S COONTY Beaver Box Elder Cache Carbon Daggett Davis Duchesne Emery Garfield Grand Iron Juab Kane Hi llard Horgan Piute Rich Salt Lake San Juan Sanpete Sevier SLflTTli t Tooele Uintah Utah Wasatch washington wayne Weber 1910 3,850 2S,150 42,550 15,150 650 99,600 7,400 5,150 3,150 6,600 12,300 4,600 2,450 7,050 4,050 1,150 1,600 461,500 9,700 11 ,000 10, 150 5,900 21,600 12,BOO 139,300 5,950 13,900 1,450 126,100 1911 3,850 28,450 43:150 16,650 650 107,BOO 8,500 5,600 3,100 6,550 13,300 4,600 2,800 7, 150 4,050 1,150 1,550 467,300 ·9,600 11,250 10,850 6,400 21,700 14, 100 151,000 6,350 15, 100 1,500 127,100 1972 3,850 28,BOO 44,050 17,200 600 113,300 9,900 6,100 3,100 6,500 14,050 4,700 2,950 7,350 4,050 1,150 1,550 477, 100 9,850 11,400 11,350 6,900 21,800 15,250 160,400 '6,650 16, 150 1,450 127,600 1913 3,850 29,200 45,350 17 ,550 600 116,600 11,000 6,700 3,050 6,450 14,200 4,800 3, 150 7,400 4,200 1,200 1,550 491,800 10,050 11,850 11,150 1,050 22, 150 16,050 166, 100 6,100 17 ,600 1,500 129,500 1914 3,950 29, 100 46,850 17 ,900 700 119,900 11,550 6,800 3, 100 6,500 14,500 5,000 3,250 7,500 4,350 1,200 1,650 504,500 10,350 11,900 11,950 7,300 22,650 16,950 111, 100 6,650 lB,150 1,550 130, 100 1975 3,900 29,900 48,100 18,150 800 123,900 11,500 7,600 3,200 6,900 14,950 4,950 3,350 7,900 4,350 1,250 1,700 521,200 10,700 12, 150 12,550 7,500 23, 150 17 ,350 176,800 7,000 19,000 1,600 131,900 1976 4,000 30,100 50, 100 19,450 750 128, 100 11, 150 8,850 3,250 7,300 15,500 5,050 3,500 7,950 4,500 1,200 1,700 539,400 10,750 12,500 13,050 7,850 23,550 17 ,500 184,700 7,200 20,250 1,650 131,200 1977 4,150 30,800 51,700 20, 150 700 133,20q 11,400 ' 9,700 3,350 7,650 16,000 5, 150 3,750 8,050 4,600 1,200 1,850 556,000 11 ,350 13,050 13,400 8,450 24,250 18,450 193,700 7,550 21,550 1,700 133, 100 (s~'1 1978 1979 4,200 4,350 31,500 32,350 53,200 54,800 20,750 21,350 750 750 134,900 ,142,400 11,600 ' ' 11,850 10,300 11 ,000 3,350 3,450 8, 100 7,950 16,650 17 ,050 5',250 5,400 3,850 3,800 8,250 8,550 4,600 4,800 1,250 1,250 1,800 2,050 576,600 599, 100 11,800 12, 150 13,650 14,050 14,000 14,450 9,500 8,950 24,850 25,450 19,000 19,800 203, 100 211 ,500 8,000 7,850 23,050 25,000 1,900 1,800 138,800 141,900 1980 4,400 33,500 57,700\ 22,400 750 148,000 12,700 11,600 3,700 8,250 17 ,500 5,550 4,050 9,050 4,950 1,350 2, 150 625,000 12,400 14,800 14,900 10,400 26,200 20,700 220,000 8,650 26,400 1,950 145,000 1981 4,600 34,000 59,800 23,100 850 153,000 13, 100 12, 100 3,700 8,400 17 ,900 5,600 4,050 9,600 5,050 1,400 2,250 639,000 12,700 15,400 15,200 10,900 26;800 21,900 228,000 8,900 27,700 2,000 148,000 1982 4,650 34,700 62,000 24,700 850 158,000 13,700 13,000 3,750 8,100 18,300 5,700 4,150 10,400 5,200 1,350 2,400 654,000 12,600 16, 100 15,500 11,300 27, 100 24,300 235,000 8,750 29,400 2,000 151,000 1983 5,000 35,300 64,500 24,500 750 162,000 14,400 13, 100 3,950 7,950 18,900 5,900 4,350 11,400 5,250 ,1,450 2,300 667,000 13,000 16,900 15,800 11,800 27,300 25,300 242,000 9,050 30,700 2, 150 154,000 1984 5, 150 35,800 65,600 23,700 750 -166,000 14,800 12,400 3,950 7,650 19,300 6, 150 4,500 13,500 ' 5,350 1,500 2,150 678,000 12,800 17 ,000 16, 100 12,200 28,200 24,500 247,000 9,200 32,600 2,150 155,000 19SsP 5,050 36,600 66,700 23,400 700 171,000 14,700 11,800 4,050 7,050 19,400 6,250 4,700 14,200 5,450 l,55CJ 2,100 690,000 12,500 16, Of" 16 12 " uv 28,300 24,000 251,000 9,200 35~ 700 2,100 156,000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STATEl 1,066 1, 101 1,135 1, 169 1,197 1,234 1,272 1,316 1,364 1,416 1,474 1,515 1,558 1,596 1,62,3 1,649 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------1 in thousands P pre l1ffii nary Source: Utah Population Estimates Committee 1/86 �Utah Population Estimates by County --f County July 1 1980 July 1 1981 1980-81 % Growth July 1 1982 1981·82 % Growth July 1 1983 1982·83 ./. Growth July 1 1984 1983·84 % Growth July 1 1985 1984·85 % Growth July 1 1988 1985·88 % Growth 4,400 33,500 57,700 22,400 750 148,000 12,700 11 ,600 3,700 8,250 17,500 5,550 4,050 9,050 4,950 1,350 2,150 4.55% 1.49 % 3.64% 3.13% 13.33% 3.38% 3.15% 4.31% 0.00% 1.82% 2.29% 0.90% 0.00% 6.08 % 2.02 % 3.70 % 4.65% 2.24% 2.42 % 4.05% 2.01 % 4.81 % 2.29 % 5.80 % 3.64 % 2.89 % 4.92 % 2.56 % 2.07 % 4,650 34,700 62,000 24,700 850 158,000 13,700 13,000 3,750 12,400 14,800 14,900 10,400 26,200 20,700 220,000 8,650 26,400 1,950 145,000 4,600 34,000 59,800 23,100 850 153,000 13,100 12,100 3,700 8,400 17,900 5,600 4,050 9,600 5,050 1,400 2,250 639,000 12,700 15,400 15,200 10,900 26,800 21 ,900 228,000 8,900 27,700 2,000 148,000 18,300 5,700 4,150 10,400 5,200 1,350 2,400 654,000 12,600 16,100 15,500 11 ,300 27,100 24,300 235,000 8,750 29,400 2,000 151 ,000 1.09% 2.06 % 3.68% 6.93% 0.00 % 3.27% 4.58% 7.44% 1.35% -3.57% 2.23% 1.79% 2.47 % 8.33 % 2.97% -3.57% 6.67 % 2.35 % -0.79% 4.55 % 1.97 % 3.67 % 1.12% 10.96 % 3.07% -1 .69 % 6.14 % 0.00 % 2.03 % 5,000 35,300 64,500 24,500 750 162,000 14,400 13,100 3,950 7,950 18,900 5,900 4,350 11 ,400 5,250 1,450 2,300 667,000 13,000 16,900 15,800 11 ,800 27,300 25,300 242,000 9,050 30,700 2,1 50 154,000 7.53% 1.73% 4.03% -0.81 % -11 .76% 2.53% 5.11 % 0.77% 5.33% -1 .85% 3.28% 3.51% 4.82% 9.62% 0.96% 7.41% -4.17% 1.99% 3.17% 4.97 % 1.94% 4.42 % 0.74 % 4.12% 2.98 % 3.43% 4.42 % 7.50% 1.99 % 5,150 35,800 65,600 23,700 750 166,000 14,800 12,400 3,950 7,650 19,300 6,150 4,500 13,500 5,350 1,500 2,1 50 678,000 12,800 17,000 16,100 12,200 28,200 24,500 247,000 9,200 32,600 2,150 155,000 3.00% 1.42% 1.71 % -3.27% 0.00% 2.47% 2.78% -5.34% 0.00% -3.77% 2.12% 4.24 % 3.45 % 18.42% 1.90% 3.45 % -6.52% 1.65% -1 .54 % 0.59 % 1.90% 3.39 % 3.30 % -3.16 % 2.07 % 1.66% 6.19 % 0.00 % 0.65 % 5,050 36,600 66,700 23,400 700 170,000 14,700 11,800 4,050 7,050 19,400 6,250 4,700 14,200 5,450 1,550 2,100 689,000 12,500 16,900 16,200 12,400 28,300 24,000 250,000 9,200 35,700 2,1 00 155,000 -1.94% 2.23% 1.68% -1.27% -6.67% 2.41% -0.68% -4.84% 2.53% -7.84% 0.52% 1.63% 4.44% 5.19% 1.87 % 3.33 % -2.33 % 1.62% -2.34% -0.59 % 0.62 % 1.64% 0.35 % -2.04 % 1.21 % 0.00 % 9.51 % -2.33 % 0.00 % 4,950 37,300 67,800 23,000 700 175,000 14,300 11 ,800 4,050 6,850 19,500 5,800 4,800 13,600 5,500 1,550 2,050 698,000 12,700 16,500 15,800 12,700 28,100 23,000 253,000 9,450 39,1 00 2,100 157,000 -1.98% 1.91 % 1.65% -1 .71% 0.00% 2.94% -2.72 % 0.00% 0.00% -2.84% 0.52% -7.20% 2.13% -4.23% 0.92% 0.00% -2.38% 1.31 % 1.60% - 2.37 % -2.47% 2.42 % -0.71 % -4.17% 1.20 % 2.72 % 9.52 % 0.00 % 1.29% 1,474,000 1,515,000 2.78 % 1,558,000 1,596,000 2.44% 1,623,000 1.69 % 1,645,000 1. 36 % 1,666,000 1.28 % \ Beaver Box Elder Cache Carbon Daggett Davis Duchesne Emery Garfield Grand Iron Juab Kane Millard Morgan Piute Rich Salt Lake San Juan Sanpete Sevier Summit Tooele Uintah Utah Wasatch Washington Wayne Weber State Tota l 625 ,000 8 ,~ 00 2.84 % Source: Utah Populat ion Estimates Comm ittee and the Utah Office of Plann ing and Budget , Data Resources Section n> C- eo CO rn n 0 ~ 0 3 tr l' CD "a .. .. 0 0 :z- CD C) 0 c .. .. CD ~ 0 �ATTACHrVlENT 3 �1-940 -TI-lR()t.JGH 'j'98.5, 1-94(} 1'9 A·-,;, : 1'9 5(} 19 E)) 1'965 '1'970 1- 8C' 9 �NORTHERN UTAH POPULATION - YEAR 1940 194 1 1942 1943 1944 1 945 1946 1947 1948 1949 1 (35Q~ 1 95 1 1 95i::: 1 953 1 '354 1355 CALCULATED POPULATION 280722 298983 317244 3 35505 353765 372Ql27 390288 408549 425810 44507 1 46333c: 1940 THROUGH 1985 ACTUAL POPULATION 348500 i ;. G7800 't8 i 593 49985'15:1 B i i 5 535375 52L~e1!Z10 554637 5493et1Z( 56'3800 1'356 572898 1957 5'3 1 i59 ~58500!Zi 1958 609'+~~0 6025Q~0 1959 1 9SIZ\ 6;:;~ 7682 6i.~:'~3Q'0 E'+961Z10 67 9 500 71 21100121 '71 9 1 QIQ: 1 /36 1 6 45943 6G42tZI4 1 ~)62 682465 1963 71ZIQi726 1 964 1'3 65 7 1 8987 7.37248 755509 1966 11367 77377tZl 726600 73660Q' 749600 757 t 01Z( 7638lZIIZI i 9tSB 79f:03 1 :i. '3 E/3 8 1 '2129 2 773'31Z~ ej i'J70 :1. 971 828~S53 785750 846814 865075 Bib 1 ili.Wt 81825tZ' 84Ql3~:50 B5911Z10 1975 1 976 1977 883336 9015 '3 7 9 1 f3858 938119 908650 956381Zi '33~S501Z1 1378 '374641 1 97{S 1'380 i 138 1 9929Qi2 1011163 1 1Z12{3424 1047686 1 iL'l65947 965250 1 QH 2 O::i QI Zi 1 9~ 2 1973 1 '374 1 9B E~ 1 '383 1'384 1084208 1 '3 85 1 102469 884~~eI 0 i 0425 0 tt~ i lZi67ge,Qi 103'+'+00- 1 1 17650 1136100 :l 153 1 5121 �ATTACHMENT 4 �I J 'I lJ- +69 4-Cf7 L5'7 338 579 Lf-7tJ 2-82 7> 8/ �-- - -- -- - .. i,--- .-- -- - . - i A-P I i cC7~-yu..;lec/ Q~ "Q~/C-.s -f-r cc /.....-..._ · f-r.a f!';. c ,r-e ceo r ct> ,zy 5 ~ I;~.e> /u ('"1'/ /( s ) (2 ~ ~IJ ~fr/{i~j'/#',/ prk ) .Cl('e :1''''" r p1 a" e".T I t t~5-8~ :A/2_ are-sf PTAS : u3-0:3bZ i ;" ('17~ - I I I:. ' 77 17-030~ frf{S /7' ~30'f~-3bZ 7~ L7 I V - 'l G&orcJ Sf« . it:? =<' 09-87 / N /fPr G er elr-' '? C~r-c~ L Z«--, [/7 of'- G<u-/en /77b /f-J) T i9 zz dPI /'37S- 1'-1-6-1 1767 /2.32/680 19 2 2 . k 1?77 /7' 7b . 177;Co. Ie cch Ie . ~ r 9' 76 /77b It-vy rf 27r I ! I J ! I ! ,:..ef i r:x I/O' ~ ra+r'c.5; 2737 j7;/1 fer!,O'/a I,..~r. ~{s e_ e '-'v c c- C-< ~~ !:;. . Cc-c-< , ,, f~ r /238 /2. /2 '31 /2 13 20 : ""',::;:,.. .... f1 17GB /768 /7£7 /Cf7{ j. / -/J C> .: �ATTACHMENT 5 �1-94(} 1"9 4~> 1-:3.:;.;:) 1"9 ~~~:, 1-9 5-0 1'~1 F.!S 1J 7 0 1-:3 75 1~J J)) 1': 385 1'9 -90 1- '95 9 2.0C() 2.C·f:)5 20 10 �LOGAN CANYON TRAFFIC ~ ADT FORECAST AT CARD GUARD STATION MEASURED STATION VOL YEAR 1 (:'::lIte, 1 '3Lj·5 1950:i 95'+ CACULATED STAT VOLUME 338 363 295 557 538 230. 77 225. 28 714 ~~20. 71ZttZl 854 217. 9£1 217 " 38 <..1 215. 8"~ 2i 5. ':;. -;. 215. 87 2151: 45 215 .. 0'9 21 it. 76 21 Lr• 43 1955 77t7.) 88(3 19~5C 788 924 1957 1 :l91Zi 1216 '36121 l'3!:.iB 1959 1960 i961 i962 1953 196 L,. 1965 t 35£-:1 1 '367 19E..8 J. !369 1970 1'37i i "37r~ 1973 1974 1975 1976 1 977 i '37 E3 1'379 :t980 19131 1982 196~3 1984 1985 i986 1'387 1988 11:389 i ':391Z1 11:39 i i 99i~: 1 r::393 1991.11935 1996 1937 ]./398 1999 20tZ1tZi 2001 2002 STANDARD DEVIATION li:::61Z1 1285 1 i:::5iZi 12Ael 140tll i.:~;Bet 142i7.J :L4 L1-5 15e~ Q) 1lZ1Qtet i 041Zl i Ql51Z1 :!,1l!5Q! 1i:::30 12QHZl 156tL 1 ... 661ZI 17C8 J. 92~S 190121 1 8el:-i i8 i S 1890 1 841Zl i 9tZl0 1750 17':35 995 1. 031Z1 1055 i :t01ZI .( -t.t::' 1 ... -.J...1 1 i 7ei 1205 80 ~J'-1 21 it .. ~~5 lc:4Qi E: 1 Lt·. tZl"7 213r. 1:34 l;::~T::; ........ ,l. ,-.' • ~=; ·t -;~ 85 E~1~3u Ymax Yrl1i 1'". 752. 919. llZtS7 .. 1222. 1256. 1290. b~ 77c~. C::- '.., ·-, 35 .... '= 1 ~" ,- ' c';;;: 135'3. w...1 1393 .. 95 14;:::8. 44 '4 .i ,.J ...:J r.::. II 16 7c~ . 1707. 1742. l777. 1 812. 1486 15E.: 1 1::: i 4. 21 Lj. 214. 2i5. 3 !2\ i £V+8. 36 5'+ B;=: 1 8B3~ .'-, .\ __ ' C.L c I. 53 1627 1562 iE/37 i 73E~ :t7S7 1B02 1837 1 872 1907 1 ':34~:: 1978 EiZJ13 201.t8 212183 21 i8 ;~~ 153 ~::: 15 .. 95 216. Lr3 c~ 1 6a r:34 217. 50 2i8t; 1 iZ~ 2i 8. 75 '= ~ l a 44 ;:::2121 c 18 22Qi 95 ' - .I. ..I" iC .::-'=, '\ L....L-j. .:a '=I'="::~ L-L-L- li '::'-='7 J-.~,--'. 78 6 "f' 55 22't. 49 225. L~B 226., 227. 228. 229. n 51 :::;7 58 8 '-' Co 12(0 E~329 .=,-:; .=, .. I.....\-JL... 2E~ 2354 i.:::399 2434 i.::: 469 25Qi4 2539 2~3.3. 4B 234. 77 236. lIZI 237. '+6 238. 85 240. 28 i~188 2i~23 2258 2~:::'34 2:"3 :t li.~ i J .t 12 .31 58 93 67 :L '3 i '3. il-5 1955 .. 1'=' 11. 991Zl. t)b 2026. 68 20C2. 58 50 3 8el"?" 9 1 843. 40 878 .. 74 313. '33 349 . 17 984. 2E.. 1567" i5 16el;~ • III 2 15.2;6" 97 2i 16 I 1463 .. 00 ~.::.c= 'I..JL-~c 1451 1555 i591 t=~ .....1 14·97. i 80 98 8i 213" b 1 213a 86 c~ i 3 M' 3E., w 157. 48 340 .. 485. 75 521. 87 557. 90 5 ~3~3. 86 529. 74 t= 1:"_655. ~ JJ 71211. 28 736. 93 131 1 1345 1.381 1 Lj·16 1 Lj. • ... 1 -27. 31 8E.. i 1 06 7tZl ltZii'3" 28 -=, .:; 1054·. 1..-1- 108'3. 08 '1 ..l. 1 I.....\-J • ,=,~ BS 1 158 .. 56 1 193. 18 1227 .. 72 1262. '3 1295. 58 i 3300 as 'j oJ. c:"c.- ..;;) ...J 1355 .. l~ E:134.: 60 3 2 i 7et. 7 . 2205. 93 2i~43. 2Qi 1399. i 4.33. i 457. 151211. 28 2~~79. ...1 .....: ., C'7t::;' ... w-...J..J~ i~eI98" J:::"t:::" 2315. 97 2 . :52 • 47 2 ~:::3bg. el3 ;:::4·25. t=J5 2Lj·62. .37 2499. 1 '-I' L... ·N-'..J .. 98 '-', c. C'7 '-'.• 88 oJ c 250':3. 8E 2EJ46. 89 2684 .. tlt 121 27i~ 1 • i6 2758. 3 '3 2735. 67 ·:::c:.::7~ o,j I 2B~33" 02 28712t. 43 2907. 89 2945. 41 36 37 3::' 17 1568. ac: 1602 . E7 1.636 .. 211 i 669 .. 8 :3 1. 7Q13. \.oJ i 736. 83 oJ .....; 7:~ .J 1770 .. 2QI 1803. 50 1836. 1869 .. 1 9tZI3oo i 936. 1 36 rS. 21ZoZ11 • 2034. 2067. 2100. 2133. 74 91 0 .::. '-' 0E Qilt 136 82 63 37 06 �LOGAN CANYON TRAFFIC - ADT FORECAST AT CARD GUARD STATION MEASURED STATION VOL YEAR i~Q103 CACULATED STRT VOLUME STANDARD DEVIATION ~:::41.75 2'38~=::. 243. i:::4 30E~ lll 2007 2574 260'::1 ;:::545 258QI 2715 20el8 2750 2 49. 5 i t 2009 i:::785 ~:::5 i:::01tZl 2820 252.85 2004 c:QI 0~5 c~0elb Ymax i=:4L~. 77 24·fJ. 33 _ n 19 Yrnin '39 .. 62 .3lZi5B. 2; 1 3IZl9E;.04 3133.84 3171.58 2 i 65. 6 '3 21 '::)8.27 c~3E:8 . elL,: c~361Z1 n 3 E., �ATTACHMENT 6 " �LOGAN CANYON TRAFFIC FORECAST SUMMARY MEASURED POPULATION YEAR 1 '34121 1985 PREDICTED POPULATION 348500 l1el2469 PREDIC TED IYIE ASU RED ADT (§i CARD ADT 1~ CRRD 28072;:: 338 3 63 i153150 1795 1342 PERCENT INCREASE - !'r1easut"'ed - Pt--ed i ct ed c~ - 431. 16. 35'1- e/ 7!~ 434·. 9'3'/:. 31ei.781- TRAFFIC I~CREASE/POPULATION INCREASE Measured 1.99 Predicted 1.. 40 F ORECAST TRAFF I C AT CARD GUARD STATION BASED UPON LINEAR MODE L OF 1940 @ Card Guard Station Ave of stations in Canyon 1985 BASED UPON POPULATION INCREASE OF Measured raatio 1.99*.59 = 1 795* ( 1 + i. 1 74 1 ) ..- 59~ Predicted ratio 1.4*.59 = i795*(i+0 .. 826) - ADT 2821Z1 27'3fl PER UTAH PLANN ING OFFI CE 1. 17 Ld 3SHZii:::.5095 AD T 0.825 3277 .. 6 7 ~~D T �ATTACHMENT 7 �AGENDA INTERDISCIPLINARY STUDY TEAM JUNE- la, 1986 1. Introduction 2. Review Scope of Work General Task 1 Task 2 Task 3 Task 4 Task 5 Task 6 Task 7 Analysis of Transportation Needs Location Studies Geotechnical Considerations Public and Agency Involvement Coordination Environmental Assessment Documents I 3. Schedule for Completion of Study 4. Interdisciplinary Team Schedule of Meetings 5. Public Information Time Place ~eeting ~U--7~ !,vj~ _ Ir<. b4Af- BOT538/003 r:A~ #V'v{ce r (~ 1-/0"" If " l., h..J /-(7 "VA/, ,!LCU', '0>., i:"'J flike ;r'17-; 5: C A,'lf ! bll' 4H ,'n ",.,( I/I?VI-, ~ It" CH~M !l1'11 t � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/29">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/29</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2013 Conversion Specs Scanned by Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library using Epson Expression 10000 scanner, at 800 dpi. Archival file is PDF (800 dpi), display file is JPEG2000. Checksum 37604280 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 12145346 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Logan Traffic Forecasts Description An account of the resource Memorandum to the Interdisciplinary Team members on the subject of traffic forecasts through 2010. Also includes population forecasts estimated for all the counties in Utah from 1940 to 1970, and specific county projections from 1970 to 1985 a graph of Northern Utah's calculated and actual population handwritten tables of traffic on Utah highways specifically Logan Canyon's average daily traffic and the projected from 1940 to 2010. In addition, the agenda from the June 10, 1986 meeting is included with handwritten notes in the margins. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Forsgren, Clifford Subject The topic of the resource United States Highway 89 Logan Canyon (Utah) Roadside Improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon Traffic engineering Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Administrative records Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1987-03-30 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Utah United States Logan Canyon (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1980-1989 1990-1999 2000-2009 2010-2019 20th century 21st century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Sierra Club, Utah Chapter Archives, 1972-1986, COLL MSS 148 Series VIII Box 27 Folder 2 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. View the inventory for this collection at: <a href="http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv03390">http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv03390</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Libraries Photograph Curator, phone (435) 797-0890. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MSS148VIIIB27_Fd2_Page_4.pdf Highway 89; https://highway89.org/files/original/bf8618083c660163883a8debe2b44d56.mp3 24b316ce8d2a7a86b0141716a1d3cb9e Sound A resource primarily intended to be heard. Examples include a music playback file format, an audio compact disc, and recorded speech or sounds. Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2013-03-25 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Treasure Trail Description An account of the resource "Treasure Trail" performed by Frank Barker and His Latin Aires, 1950's. Music composed by Bernie Williams and commissioned by the 89'ers International Highway Association, Inc. Read the agreement here: <a href="http://highway89.org/items/show/1288%20">http://highway89.org/items/show/1288 </a> Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Frank Barker and His Latin Aires Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Barker, Frank, performer Williams, Bernie, compser Subject The topic of the resource United States Highway 89 Music Adversitising Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1955 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1950-1959 20th century Language A language of the resource eng; Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Edgar Bentley Mitchell Papers, 1950-1959, COLL MSS 322 Box 2 Folder 4 Is Format Of A related resource that is substantially the same as the described resource, but in another format. COLL MSS 322 Edgar Bentley Mitchell Papers, 1950-1959 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. View the finding aid for this collection at: <a href="http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv06356">http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv06356</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context Treasure Trail.mp3 https://highway89.org/files/original/0287573c5851b39d93a00da3d2b95169.jpg b793e568cfeae6493df7854927110241 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 3859 Image Width Image Width in pixels 6328 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 1200 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example Grayscale Checksum B27A48B2D3FB8078FEB231B185F6300E File Size Size of the file in bytes. 24068232 Conversion Specs Scanned by Northern Arizona University. Cline Library using Epson Expression 10000XL scanner, display file is JPEG. Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2012-02-24 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/99767">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/99767</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Bridge Across the Colorado, Marble Canyon, Arizona Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Frasher's Fotos (Pomona, CA); Subject The topic of the resource Bridges; Iron and steel; Canyons; Water; Rivers--Arizona; Postcards; Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Gelatin Silver print (black and white) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1925 ca. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Marble Canyon (Ariz.);United States Highway 89; Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1920-1929; 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Warren Family; Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_151083.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/e5d24fe79a86a9a3011ec90241e95381.jpg c6b5f2fa6831e38fde30eaf25d870447 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 3788 Image Width Image Width in pixels 6212 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 1200 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example Grayscale Checksum 48A46903D60D8760F3E6D8207042D0B3 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 24205364 Conversion Specs Scanned by Northern Arizona University. Cline Library using Epson Expression 10000XL scanner, display file is JPEG. Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2012-02-24 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/99775">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/99775</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Canyon Bridge and Vermillion Cliffs, Marble Canyon, Arizona Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Frasher's Fotos (Pomona, CA); Subject The topic of the resource Bridges, Iron and steel--Arizona; Cliffs; Rock formations; Postcards; Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Gelatin Silver print (black and white) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1925 ca. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Marble Canyon (Ariz.);United States Highway 89; Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1920-1929; 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Warren Family; Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_151089.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/22d9a16b971746042454c6669938e1fe.jpg 03370f4f6ffdffd31fc23365faf5fdf8 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 6285 Image Width Image Width in pixels 3854 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 1200 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example Grayscale Checksum 073B0014E9CE039BA4DF0325C1804DF1 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 24442712 Conversion Specs Scanned by Northern Arizona University. Cline Library using Epson Expression 10000XL scanner, display file is JPEG. Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2012-02-24 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/99777">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/99777</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Canyon Bridge, 834 Feet long, 467 feet above river, Marble Canyon, Arizona Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Frasher's Fotos (Pomona, CA); Subject The topic of the resource Bridges, Iron and steel--Arizona; Cliffs; Canyons; Water; Rivers--Arizona; Postcards; Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Gelatin Silver print (black and white) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1925 ca. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Marble Canyon (Ariz.);United States Highway 89; Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1920-1929; 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Warren Family; Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_151091.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/e38e7a0ee5eaea953bdb3da3325898a5.jpg b5fd28f0e430b24a8cee6f67f6d8cf27 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 2910 Image Width Image Width in pixels 7277 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 800 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum A927BED2696F98D4099DA2F7B2D8D180 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 23555048 Conversion Specs Scanned by Northern Arizona University. Cline Library using Epson Expression 10000XL scanner, display file is JPEG. Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2012-02-27 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/10059">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/100597</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Colorado River Bridge, Marble Canyon, Arizona Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Frasher's Fotos (Pomona, CA); Subject The topic of the resource Bridges; Bridges, Iron and steel--Arizona; Automobile; Postcards; Cliffs; Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Gelatin Silver print (black and white) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1925 ca. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Marble Canyon (Ariz.);United States Highway 89; Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1920-1929; 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Warren Family; Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_151116.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/0661836ea2f4765ef395f2000cd470e4.jpg 6b2bc32998544c15660a927457b5648e Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 4344 Image Width Image Width in pixels 6696 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 1200 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum 016964DCDDFB60DBBF682BF68FE14729 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 24245520 Conversion Specs Scanned by Northern Arizona University. Cline Library using Epson Expression 10000XL scanner, display file is JPEG. Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2012-02-27 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/10060">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/100603</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Junction US 89 and Kaibab Forest Highway, Arizona Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Frasher's Fotos (Pomona, CA); Subject The topic of the resource Dirt roads; Forest and forestry; Signs and signboards; Postcards; Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Gelatin Silver print (black and white) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1925 ca. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Kaibab National Forest (Ariz.); United States Highway 89 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1920-1929; 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Warren Family; Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_151122.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/a934d3bad6364950f7331bc78480c392.pdf 871fdea5b3f4ccc480593ce8fcc87ae3 PDF Text Text ( UTAH STATE EXTENSION UNIVERSITY SERVICE IN COOPERATION WITH COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND U . S. D EPA RT MEN T 0 FAG RIC U LT U R E LO GAN, U TA H September 26, 1961 Dean J. Whitney Floyd Campus Dear Dean Floyd: I enjoyed reading the fourth rought draft of the statement on Road Construction and Resource Use, prepared by the faculty of the College of Forest, Range and wildlife Management, which you were kind enough to send to me. This statement is well written. It contains some very interesting points which are usually overlooked by the common ordinary citizen. I donUt believe I have any suggestions for improving this manuscript. VlV trUl'A~ ~ "'"~ Carl Frischknecht, Director Extension Services Utah State University CF:lm � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1721">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1721</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Checksum 1547336671 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 573317 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from Carl Frischknecht to J. Whitney Floyd, September 26, 1961 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from Carl Frischknecht to J. Whitney Floyd, September 26, 1961. Utah State University. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Frischknecht, Carl Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Floyd, J. Whitney Subject The topic of the resource Roadside improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon Traffic engineering Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Logan (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1960-1969 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, 14.7.17 Box 8, College of Natural Resources, Dean's Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14717Bx8Fd20_Item 23.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/3c496ed79578f2ec2a6648a2d448335d.jpg 335f52c87ca396a96706c4c08ae10da6 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 1242 Image Width Image Width in pixels 1766 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Checksum 3923888f58922063e06396e427793742 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 4007014 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/46380">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/46380</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Entering Sedona on Highway 89. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fronske Studio Subject The topic of the resource Formations (Geology); Roads; Pinus edulis; Juniper Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Picture Postcard Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Sedona (Ariz.); United States Highway 89 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1960-1969; 20th century; Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Fronske Studio Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_6340.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/62ac17d20af2128deaff76fc13b92c5e.jpg 9f450b4695a6b35c919b6681af78b210 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 1443 Image Width Image Width in pixels 1509 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Checksum 01689e2ea11235b682ad1a156a744259 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 4025844 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/46388">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/46388</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Red Sandstone formations found in Oak Creek Canyon. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fronske Studio Subject The topic of the resource Formations (Geology); Coconino Sandstone (Ariz.; Grasses; Children; Fences; Dirt roads Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Picture Postcard Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Oak Creek Canyon (Ariz.); United States Highway 89 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1960-1969; 20th century; Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Fronske Studio Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_6348.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/13b6e6921e050eb1bea4160dd43ca70a.jpg e34be8e5955f7694b356286d62a22cb0 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 1241 Image Width Image Width in pixels 1998 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Checksum e718a734c863eeada29fcd404af70242 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 5047542 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/46387">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/46387</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oak Creek Canyon Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fronske Studio Subject The topic of the resource Canyons; Roads; Scenic byways Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Picture Postcard Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Oak Creek Canyon (Ariz.); United States Highway 89 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1960-1969; 20th century; Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Fronske Studio Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_6349.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/56a67d11f16c5881974ebb1a4ca80bd9.jpg 1dd69c2567956805b64ca035d6695379 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 1502 Image Width Image Width in pixels 2043 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Checksum 9a394e49a48d79bbad7261c7f443d66e File Size Size of the file in bytes. 1202782 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/1587">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/1587</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Cameron Trading Post, 1963. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fronske Studio Subject The topic of the resource Trading posts; Service stations; Automobiles; Hotels; Hotel Court; Cameron Trading Post Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Black-and-White Photograph Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1963 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Cameron (Ariz.); Navajo Indian Reservation; United States Highway 89; Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1960-1969; 20th century; Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Fronske Studio Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_6659.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/e38fefb0329f89d27872b38cb701144e.jpg 94d89acf7e904e6ad2db5ecd66be6bb3 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 2308 Image Width Image Width in pixels 2901 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Checksum 25a835d3c4f8c44394fa0f3efa32ae1c File Size Size of the file in bytes. 1675132 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/1106">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/1106</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Standard Oil of California, Cameron Trading Post, 11-2-66. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fronske Studio Subject The topic of the resource Navajo Indians; Navajo women; Navajo children; Trading posts; Restaurants; Standard Oil Company of California; Cameron Trading Post Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Black-and-white photograph Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1966 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Cameron (Ariz.); United States Highway 89; Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1960-1969; 20th century; Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Fronske Studio Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_7717.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/2fd764101d9a36eafdf33db293abf4ee.jpg 1fbbbf4de03b421854f08aa6d827b8be Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 4157 Image Width Image Width in pixels 5806 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Checksum 57df3a2f4391ef87afeca5a1537cc6ec File Size Size of the file in bytes. 92392494 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/20668">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/20668</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oak Creek Canyon Switchbacks. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fronske Studio Subject The topic of the resource Roads; Scenic byways Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Color Transparencies, 5x7 inches Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1970 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Oak Creek Canyon (Ariz.); United States Highway 89 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1970-1979; 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Fronske Studio Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_9896.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/eb76337cb998d13375c0decb9a537349.jpg 76b787e919b02dae2b9a15932b3f10c0 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 5167 Image Width Image Width in pixels 5216 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 1200 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum e7f17d46e88baa288cc96d27f2bd3350 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 73277524 Conversion Specs Scanned by Northern Arizona University. Cline Library using Epson 2450 scanner Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/9022">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/9022</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource [Aerial view: Sedona, intersection of Jordon Road and 89A.] Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fronske Studio Subject The topic of the resource Aerial photography; Coconino Sandstone (Ariz.; Cities and towns; Formations (Geology) Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Color photograph, 11x10 cms. Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1970 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Sedona (Ariz.); United States Highway 89A; Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1970-1979; 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Fronske Studio Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_10232.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/c313c0e174be4560c64d5ebf54ea04ee.jpg 337b8297de66a900bade709ce9a145db Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 5816 Image Width Image Width in pixels 8543 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Checksum 053c2a5448999b86a9a858652d52efec File Size Size of the file in bytes. 185375078 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/8454">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/8454</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Standard Oil Company, 11-66 [Cameron Motor Hotel] Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fronske Studio Subject The topic of the resource Hotels; Trading posts; Cameron Trading Post Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Color print Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1966 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Cameron (Ariz.); Navajo Indian Reservation;United States Highway 89; Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1960-1969; 20th century; Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Fronske Studio Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_18530.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/7717af011afd399e9430f556cbc3bf7b.jpg bb9f3da2c058482e9c6376cf168f42d1 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 3798 Image Width Image Width in pixels 4766 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 1000 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum 3a695d3b75d6ee95e285084414d5784c File Size Size of the file in bytes. 107390230 Conversion Specs Scanned by Northern Arizona University. Cline Library using Imacon Flextight 848, display file is JPEG. Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/14692">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/14692</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Don Hoels - Oak Creek, Arizona Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fronske Studio Subject The topic of the resource Resorts; Service stations; Canyons; Don Hoels Cabins Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Black and white film (unidentified) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1947 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Oak Creek Canyon (Ariz.); United States Highway 89A; United States Highway 89; United States Highway 89A; Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1940-1949; 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Fronske Studio Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_18592.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/454e79578bc7236aef7e104b9035c04c.jpg aa802ab59d706f99c3c6fff434ca05b7 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 4627 Image Width Image Width in pixels 6899 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 5000 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum 94074c8644f107ea712a726382672b55 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 99375706 Conversion Specs Scanned by Northern Arizona University. Cline Library using Imacon Flextight 848, display file is JPEG. Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/14707">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/14707</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Oak Creek Bridge, Oak Creek Canyon, Arizona Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fronske Studio Subject The topic of the resource Bridges; Canyons; Rivers Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Black and white film (unidentified) Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1948 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Oak Creek Canyon (Ariz.);United States Highway 89A Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1940-1949; 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Fronske Studio Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_18594.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/68729c0e0d7e9df642da1ba6217f1083.jpg deccd3eacb382f44bfc9b8ea48cd3b29 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Image Height 2848 Image Width Image Width in pixels 3805 Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 240 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum 0FA7A0AD1A71FBF4F9176E2F2BB83826 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 87483508 Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2012-04-27 Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order a print or digital file of this item, please see Northern Arizona University. Cline Library's Reproduction Order Form at: <a>http://archive.library.nau.edu/cdm/ordering/#ordering</a> Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/10194">http://cdm16748.contentdm.oclc.org:80/cdm/ref/collection/cpa/id/101942</a> Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Sedona, Arizona Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Fronske Studio; Subject The topic of the resource Postcards; Roadside architecture--West (U.S.); Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Photomechanical print Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1960 ca. Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Sedona (Ariz.);United States Highway 89A Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1960-1969; 20th century Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Northern Arizona University. Cline Library. Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Digital surrogates are the property of the repository. Reproduction requires permission, please contact special.collections@nau.edu. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Schnebly, Ellsworth; Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context NAU_153206.jpg https://highway89.org/files/original/2406b956e4acf7930b50aae2e5988367.pdf c675028977bd86e95d9655ec5c9ff0e7 PDF Text Text TO:~~ _--#__ ~ ~ _ __ This material is being forwarded to you by President Chase, on the assumption that it may be of inter ost to you. �December il, 1961 Dr. Daryl Olase, President Utah State University Losan, Utah Dear Dr. Chase: We would like to g1 y, our strollS endors ment to the h1ghv~ construction report issued by the College ot Forest, Range and Wild11fe Management. Perhaps the State Road Commission teels that they are doing an excellent Job, but those who do not like to see the ruthless detacement ot torest and landscape teel otherwise. Wh never one ~vocates a vise conservation principle in Utah, it i8 bound to be attacked by a tev highly vocal anti-conservationists. As an institution of higher learning USU baa v1aely perm1 tted the publication of unbiased studies such as this, in the tull tra.dl tion of academic treedan. In addition, these conservation studies are appreciated by a great number of state citizens, perhaps a -Jority, who, 11ke ourselves, rarely have time to otter congratulations tor a job well done. Sincerely yours, J. Calvin Gl44ins-, President W ~t � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1720">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1720</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Checksum 322770230 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 628993 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from J. Calvin Giddings to Daryl Chase, December 11, 1961 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from J. Calvin Giddings of the Wasatch Mountain Club to Daryl Chase, Utah State University President, and forwarded to Dean Floyd. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Giddings, J. Calvin Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Chase, Daryl Floyd, Dean Subject The topic of the resource Utah State University Roads--Design and construction Roadside Improvement--Utah Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Logan (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1960-1969 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, 14.7.17 Box 8, College of Natural Resources, Dean's Files Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14717Bx8Fd20_Item 10.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/e6b1afc9e894b0b290254aedb66d94a3.mp3 50f989b770159ede9c1934fa91b3e517 https://highway89.org/files/original/33b8d6a112e411b69ba487897465c1ea.pdf 1801e8066e07ae2c3d3b8c53d546bb77 PDF Text Text LAND USE MANAGEMENT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: Barrie Gilbert Place of Interview: Mr. Gilbert’s office at Utah State University Date of Interview: 21 May 2008 Interviewer: Recordist: Brad Cole Brad Cole Recording Equipment: Marantz PMD660 Digital Recorder Transcription Equipment used: Transcribed by: Transcript Proofed by: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems Susan Gross, 10 July 1008 Brad Cole and Barrie Gilbert; Randy Williams (1 June 2011) Brief Description of Contents: The interview contains a brief description of Barrie Gilbert’s childhood and details of his schooling and subsequent career in wildlife management. It includes his story of being attacked by a grizzly bear, his attitudes on wildlife management in both the U.S. and Canada, and the political pressures he and others face(d) in doing research in wildlife management and in management policies. Reference: BC = Brad Cole (Interviewer; Associate Dean, USU Libraries) BG = Barrie Gilbert NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcript. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [00:00] BC: This is Brad Cole from Special Collections and Archives at Utah State University. It’s May 21st [2008 and we’re visiting today with Dr. Barrie Gilbert, Professor Emeritus in the Natural Resources department at Utah State University. Barrie, I’d like to start off the interview with starting at the very beginning and ask you when and where you were born. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  1   �BG: Alright. Kingston, Ontario, Canada, on the 3rd of June 1937. BC: And who were your parents? BG: My parents were John Kay Gilbert – he worked in the Canadian Locomotive Company in Kingston, Ontario. My mother was Lorraine Isabelle Hall, from the Kingston area. Both of them grew up and were born in Kingston, as actually, my grandfather and greatgrandfather before them. Before that they came from Limavady, Ireland. That’s my early life. BC: What are some of your earliest memories of growing up in Kingston, Ontario? BG: The earliest thing I remember was things like catching frogs at my grandfather’s camp. We had a summer place; actually it was the only place that we owned, on Lake Ontario. I think that’s how I became a biologist. My mother’s father was quite a fisherman and duck hunter and he had a little shack – actually, a many-roomed shack because he had a family of six kids – which my mother was one. My father bought a real old shack on the same bay, Sand Bay, where I spent all of my summers as a kid rowing and sailing and falling off rafts that I made in the cold water. Probably that’s where I experienced the wildest nature, and probably became a biologist by observing things and being out in nature all the time. We had pretty much free run of the woods and fields. We had a stream that went right by our – I call it a shack because my dad bought it from a couple of college kids for $200, and you could probably throw darts at the wall and half of them would go through the cracks on the outside – and he renovated that completely. My dad was quite a handyman. He ended up building us a boat, a sail boat, and we explored – my brother and I spent our childhood messing around in small boats. [2:53] BC: You have one brother? BG: I have one brother who’s 18 months older than I am, still alive – living in eastern Ontario actually, not far from where I built a home on an island. BC: And what was his name? BG: His name was John Stanley Gilbert. BC: Sounds like, did your parents do any other kind of outdoor activities with you other than just going to the – BG: Not a whole lot. We didn’t have a lot of money. We went on summer trips when we finally ended up getting a second-hand car in, I think about the mid-40s. Before that we basically took buses everywhere. My brother and I went to school by bus. We went to our cottage from, basically when the ice broke up until October, or so, or maybe September when school started. And then we rented a house in the earlier years, a different house Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  2   �every year. Then finally, things got a little bit better and we built another cottage. My dad and I built a sunny-built cottage when I was in high school down in the St. Lawrence River. I went to public high school, then actually university all in about the same 10 blocks, which is fairly unusual. We had a very good university, Queens University, in Kingston, and I was the first one in my family to attend university – my direct family. BC: And were there any influential teachers from those early school years that you remember? BG: Yeah. I guess there are a number. I particularly liked some of my science teachers, who were very good teachers, and an English teacher gave me great respect for the English language and we’re always taught to write as much as we could and write well. And then when I went to college, university there in biology I was very fortunate to have a friend’s father who was a professor of biology, and he got me a couple of jobs when I was in college. One working on sea-land prey control for a summer up on Lake Superior, and the second year I was a field biologist, if you like, although I didn’t have a biology degree, on a sword-fishing boat, collecting biological data for the Fisheries Research Board of Canada. If you wonder why I work on big carnivores, it’s because I started on big fish! BC: So you started in Fisheries, but what was your main emphasis? [5:35] BG: Well, I think I really wanted to be a Fisheries Biologist, but I think it was just simplistic because I’d done a lot of fishing and seemed to like the science of fisheries biology. My main professor and mentor, had just got his doctorate from Yale under G. [George ]   Evelyn Hutchinson. And he came back to Queens, and took a shine to me and me to him, and I worked at the field station. He was a limnologist, he actually studied the chemistry of bottom sediments – the muds and chlorophylls and pheophytins and complex chemicals. And so I liked the idea of doing biology on lakes or something to do with fish. But I switched completely out of that when I applied for graduate school at Duke University, because my professor, Dr. Peter Klopfer specialty was bird behavior and mammal behavior mostly. He had a herd of deer that he wanted me to do some studies on, and that’s what I did my masters and PhD. So, that was a lucky break in many ways because I really was very interested in behavior. I can remember in college, gravitating to taking psychology courses because I was interested in animal behavior. And it was just becoming a field of ecology at this time. People like W.C. (Warder Clyde) Allee, the famous ecologist, was studying social behavior in all kinds of animals from fish up to herd animals, and I guess I had some intuition that studying the behavior of animals could be a career, and it was clearly a discipline at that stage. Dr. Peter Klopfer was one of the leaders in the North American continent, so I was very fortunate to study behavior with him, and I’ve never looked back in terms of studying behavior. That’s what I taught here at Utah State most of my career. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  3   �[7:41] BC: And after you received your doctorate, where did you go from there? BG: That’s when I came to Utah. I saw an advertisement in Science magazine for a National Science Foundation post-doc with Dr. Dietland Muller-Schwarze who was on staff here in Fisheries and Wildlife, and was studying pronghorn antelope. He had earlier done his doctoral work with the Nobel Prize winner Konrad Lorenz in Austria, and Dietland was an Austrian himself I believe, or a German. He came to Utah State on faculty and had some money to have somebody study pronghorn in the field, and that sounded like a great opportunity to me. I had been studying deer under enclosed conditions. We had a onemile perimeter fence with a herd of about 25 fallow deer, and I was going to study freeranging pronghorn in Yellowstone, particularly looking at how they use scent-marking in territoriality, which I did study and published on. Dietland Muller-Schwarze was doing experimental work with scent glands in deer and pronghorn. He’d come from one of the UC campuses, maybe it was Davis – I forget where. But he’d looked at the glands and the communication of the deer and was switching to pronghorn and had hand-raised pronghorn out at Green Canyon station here. So that was a very lucky break. I spent two summers and two years here, and then had to get a real job and went to Alberta looking for either a wildlife position, or a university position. BC: What years were you --? BG: Oh that was – the post-doc was [19]‘70-71 I believe and I left at the end of ’71 and went to Alberta for four years. I went to a fledgling campus that never did get built. It was called Athabasca University; it’s currently an Open University format. I lasted there – I wasn’t too happy because there was a bunch of people sitting around and I was supposed to give lectures and write newspaper articles and have a course by newspaper, and I wasn’t at all prepared to do that – I wasn’t very good at it, and I certainly wasn’t trained at it. So my next job was as a vertebrate zoologist with the Department of Agriculture in Alberta, looking at pests of problems. I started working with bears there because they have a massive conflict with bears coming into bee yards doing hundreds of thousands of dollars damage. The bee business, apiary business, honey business was worth about $10 million a year, and it was being devastated by black bears coming in and eating the bee larvae and bee eggs and those sorts of things. I worked two years with the Department of Agriculture, the provincial government’s Vertebrate Pest Group and I was supposed be doing the research on any problem vertebrate that affected agriculture. So I had to look at pocket gophers, I was looking at some coyote killing of sheep, some bear killing of sheep, and then I decided to concentrate on the bee-yard conflicts because it was such a massive problem and people were killing bears willy-nilly all over the place. Approximately 1,000 bears a year were being killed, mainly for control purposes, in some pretty horrid ways. So we started some research to try and determine how we could keep bears out of bee yards – electric fences, and I started experiments with taste aversion conditioning – where you put a chemical, Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  4   �lithium chloride in, and try to make the bears sick without getting into too many details about that. But that was fun because that was a type of experimental management that really appealed to me. The government was providing the money to help the beekeepers protect their crops, and I was able to do an experimental test to see which one would really be effective and efficient in keeping bears away from the bee yards without using a lethal technique. That was reasonably successful. I quite enjoyed that and published on that -you’ll see that in my papers. Then the government decided to move the lab out to a very small town out in the boonies. My wife [Katherine Gilbert] and I had young children and we liked living in the bigger city, so I applied for a job with Alberta Fish and Wildlife Division in an area that I had become interested in because of my doctoral work. Are we okay? And that was on game ranching, which was a new idea. Because I had done PhD on the effects of imprinting in fallow deer and how the behavior of young deer could essentially tame them or domesticate them within a couple of days’ contact with people, I thought that some wildlife like moose and mule deer could be domesticated if it made sense. It’s pretty much out of favor these days, but that was the early stages. I spent a couple of years developing a field station and working on that. (I’m getting a little feedback – am I talking too loud, or is it recording too loud?) [Tape problems, begin again] [Some discussion on the recording equipment; stop and start.] [01:07] BG: We were just finishing off, I think with my position with game ranching, which lasted until I saw a notice for a teaching position back here at Utah State. My wife and I both had a very nice experience on my post-doc here. The faculty position that opened up was the one that Dr. Allen Stokes had vacated because he retired a bit early. I responded to the notice and I was told there were 100 applicants for this position, but I was short-listed and they finally asked me if I wanted the position. That’s when I started my career in August of 1976 – career of teaching at Utah State, in what was then the Fisheries and Wildlife department. BC: What was Utah State like in 1976? BG: I don’t recall that it was a whole lot different than it is now, in the sense that we had an active aquatic and fisheries group of people, like Bill Helm and John Neuhold was here. I believe John Kadlec was department head when I came and he was a wetlands type. We were well-represented, I think, across the board in both ecosystem and species orientation. As I recall, Mike Wolfe was here, Fred Wagner was here. Fred Wagner had been working on coyotes and desert ecosystems; Mike Wolfe was a large mammal habitat person. It was a very interesting group of people. They were trying very hard to Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  5   �have a scholarly approach to wildlife management and were encouraged to publish in first rate journals and attend conferences, etc. There was a lot of emphasis, about 50% of my contract was for research, and 50% for teaching, and that was fairly traditional. [3:21] The one thing that I liked about the department here was the freedom to do field research. I considered teaching “load” as they call it, to be very light. I enjoyed that because I put a lot of effort into my teaching and took it quite seriously, I think. It was an opportunity, one of the reasons I left government wildlife work was to be able to be on committees of a variety of projects of all kinds of animal species, and that allowed me to bring my behavioral interests and other interests to bear on them without being directly involved in the research myself. I had been doing pronghorn and deer work, and when I came here I had some experience with the Yellowstone people, and grizzly bears and black bears were a bit of a focus. Since I’d worked on black bears in Alberta, problem wildlife, I thought “well I’ll go talk to people at Yellowstone; they seem to have a conflict between grizzly bears and back country people.” They’d had a couple of nasty accidents and they had a lot of traffic. Backpacking was very popular, as you remember, in the mid-70s, and there were a fair number of outfitters going through the park that were going through a high-quality grizzly bear habitat. They weren’t particularly, as I recall, the park wasn’t particularly sanguine about how they were going to manage this contact between bears and people. So I had a small contract to look at bear-human interactions, and took on a student from the southeast, Bruce Hastings, who was going to work on his masters on human-grizzly interactions in Yellowstone. We got a little bit of funding from the Park Service, and set out in early June, I think it was, to Yellowstone, after I’d finished my lecturing. We went to various places that people told us there were aggregations of grizzlies. My idea was to help Bruce get setup in some high place and observe grizzly bears as people came along trails: see what the bears did – did they approach them? Did they leave them? Did they just abandon the whole valley? Those sorts of things. [6:01] We paddled the full length of Yellowstone Lake to go down the south mountain arm and see whether there was some potential there. Either enough bears or open enough habitat that we could observe them. That didn’t turn out to be a very good place. There were bear tracks, but it was a logistically hard place to work, and you couldn’t be guaranteed that you would see very many bears and the people were relatively negligible. The next place we went was in the upper Gallatin drainage that we accessed by an Indian Creek trail in the northwest part of the park. We walked 10 miles in on June the 26th and camped at Bighorn Pass, very near a trail. There was some bear sign in the area and I can remember while setting up our little tents, our one tent we had I guess, near a cliff – I could imagine jumping over this little cliff if a bear was going to come along in middle of Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  6   �the night. I had put up a whole wall of shrubs so if a bear came messing around our tent we’d hear him scratching around through these broken pieces of wood and snags and that sort of thing. As it turned out in the morning, we got up at 6 o’clock, and before we’d had anything to eat I was out there looking over this upper Gallatin, we could see Gallatin Lake – the upper end of the watershed, and we could see grizzlies in the basin there. Elk were moving up the far slope, but we were so far we really couldn’t tell what was going on, and I guess I’d have to say I was a little impatient. The long and the short of it was we’d had a couple of hours of observation, took notes, which is in my field book that you’ll see. Then I suggested to Bruce that we take a long detour down the valley and up behind these bears and come up about 9,000 feet and be observing them on that side of the valley and be looking down at them. That’s where I ran into what I think was a female grizzly, about 10:30-11:00 in the morning. We’d hiked up this Spur Ridge, off Crow Foot Ridge – there was a little spur that came westerly – and as I came over the top of that ridge Bruce had stopped to relieve himself down the trail a bit and I told him that I would go ahead. I went up somewhat rapidly over the top of the mountain ridge so that the elk and whatever wouldn’t see me standing up there on the skyline. I think this bear had seen me coming, I hadn’t seen it. I suspect it thought I was attacking it. I was moving fast and then I dropped down – all of which to a bear means I’m launching myself at it. I looked up and this ferocious, big grizzly was coming at me about, seemed like 50 feet away. Just your basic nightmare: clawing and growling at the top of its voice, ears laid back in a full-out attack. I took one look at this and turned on my heel and ran the other way. [9:32] You can of course do all kinds of analysis after the fact on these things. There weren’t really any instructions that anybody that worked with bears had to tell you about how to deal with bears, and this was the first grizzly bear I’d ever come close to at all. So I was totally unprepared. The worst part of it being that the bear had seen me and launched on me before I’d seen it, so I didn’t even have a micro-second to get the wits to figure out a strategy. As I was moving away, it knocked me down and bit the back of my head and basically tore my scalp off from the back, trying to bite through my skull. I rolled over with the pain of that and tried to fight it off my head, but then it bit the side of my face off and I lost an eye and my cheekbone, etc. After that I was pretty much – I wasn’t unconscious, but I had been beaten up enough that I was immobile, I guess you’d say, and essentially bleeding to death. Bruce came along and saw this object standing where I’d been, or might have been and he let out a couple of vocalizations and for whatever reason the bear got off me and walked away. I interpret that the bear might’ve thought there was either a pack of us, or it had neutralized me and it wasn’t going to deal with any other intrusions. It may have had a cub down the mountain a bit. A biologist told me later that they saw bloody footprints going back off the mountain. The rest of the day was a rescue operation getting me back to a hospital. Luckily, we had a Motorola hand-held radio. One of the Park Service, they’d given us one for our backcountry work. I’ll foreshorten this part, but we were able to get a helicopter, which came in and they radioed – because the seriousness of my accident – they had a bunch of smokejumpers and medical packages dropped by parachute onto the Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  7   �mountain. About four of those guys risked injury to come down and patch me up. They took me to Lake Hospital, and then to West Yellowstone, and then to Salt Lake City. Luckily, at Lake Hospital there were four surgeons that had rotated from the University of Utah Medical Center, and they’d been trained trauma surgeons. So they probably did a lot of stuff with hunks of skin that were falling off my face to both save the tissue, and save my life. Of course by the time I was in the clinic they could give me blood substitutes. Somewhere in my collection I have a bunch of pictures of the rescue, because the helicopter pilot had nothing to do while the EMT fellows were patching me up. So he used the rest of my film to document the rescue, which it was pretty interesting. Now I can show my students, and have on occasion, I don’t like to over-emphasize it. The Park Service was using those slides for their training films. Apparently it was a very successful rescue. In fact, Mary Marr, who was directing our project, had said it was probably the most faultless rescue that they had done. I did read in some papers after that, that they’d had an evaluation procedure and realized that they should give people that are new to the park a little bit better training in dealing with back country issues like bears. Those sort of things are always stated. I had no malice toward either the bear or to the Park Service. I didn’t even think of lawsuits or anything like that, as some people do, because I realized I’d tripped on the bear and the bear was just doing what grizzlies do. I was just paying the consequence. So after about 14 operations and some skin transplants from various parts of my body, I was back on campus in September. I spent my summer holidays in the hospital! “What did you do last summer?” “Oh, I had plastic surgery, how about you?!” [Laughing.] But it was a very unfortunate accident. I was about as close to dying as you can come. I suspect I realized that I was probably the first person in North American that had been savaged so by the teeth of a bear and had lived. Lots of trappers had been grabbed by bears, but if you don’t die from loss of blood, you die from infection within about three or four days after that. I almost died of infection. They pumped me so full of antibiotics that one of the doctors said they might deafen me, but they had to stop these infections. My temperature was going up 104, 105 every afternoon as my body had fought off all the garbage that comes out of a bear’s mouth. They found -- one of the infectious diseases team guys told me they found four species of proteus bacteria, which I don’t really know what they are, but I assume they come out of earth where bears dig and eat roots and things like that. They’d never seen them before so they really didn’t know what to hit them with, so they hit them with everything they had. Mostly keflics, keflin kinds of drugs and I became allergic to those, so I still can’t take those kind of antibiotics. But it was by and large successful. [15:25] Strange to say, I went back to study bears shortly thereafter. I got a notice of a contract in Katmai [National Park]. I should say Bruce Hastings immediately went off – they found an opportunity to study bears and people in Yosemite Park, and he did a successful Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  8   �masters looking at black bears coming in the campgrounds in Yosemite Park. So we were able to rescue his thesis in another park. BC: Do you think the bad event changed your outlook on your science or anything like that? BG: You know, I don’t recall it changing the questions I was asking. When the Katmai opportunity came along, I was writing a paper – sort of the synthesis of human-bear interactions – and then I realized really I didn’t know that much; nobody did. We needed to do more research. So I quit writing and started a research proposal to look at humans and bears on a salmon stream and the response of bears, focusing on two questions. Are there too many people on Brooks River, and are they keeping bears off the river and therefore the salmon? The second question was: are people getting so close there is going to be a serious injury and the park would be responsible for injuries to people? So that’s essentially what we looked at. In Alaska, as you might know, people tend to carry their Yellowstone and Glacier National Park experience and they can’t quite believe that people can get as close as they do to Alaskan bears. For whatever reason, bears on salmon streams seem to be much more tolerant and habituate readily to people. They essentially ignore people, and they are so focused on the salmon. Now it could be that they’re not as hungry as mountain bears, or they’re not as aggressive because they don’t have to be as territorial about their food. This is an area that really needs some research, I’m just speculating on possible causes. They might be almost speciating as a more social bear, as opposed to these more aggressive, territorial bears, as I would view them, in Yellowstone. The other unknown in bear behavior in Yellowstone is the degree to which they’ve been handled and shot at, that they may really have a serious dislike for humans. When you capture a bear in snares or covert traps, they get very upset and they smell humans since humans come along and dart them – and that’s a form of animal abuse, because you need to capture the animal and deal with it. The bear remembers that sort of thing. Whether they try to take it out on people, or react, they might have a short fuse when you or I are going down a trail in Yellowstone, and rush us before we get a chance to capture them. I don’t what goes through a bear’s mind of course. I suspect that the “no-effect” hypothesis is wrong. There’s got be some influence of that kind of capture. I know the bear that, if you like, counter-attacked me -- because in a way I attacked it first – I think it was a defensive attack back on me. It might have been captured in the past, who knows? You don’t know the history of these animals. So it might have been primed, either because it was a female and threatened by other male bears, or it had been captured. We just have no idea. I was too close to it, so it wasn’t surprising that it caught me and savaged me a bit. BC: Did you do more work for Yellowstone after that? BG: I never had any kinds of contracts to do bear work. I was, not long after that, asked to be on the blue ribbon panel of biologists to address the question of closures for fly fishing on some of the streams in Yellowstone Lake. They invited four or five of us. Fred Lindsay Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  9   �from Utah State was one of them, and I think he was the one that asked me if I would be a member to look at the effectiveness of these closures, both from the point of view of safety, and also to let the bears get access to the spawning cutthroat trout that go up all the streams, all the tributaries of Yellowstone Lake. I never, at that time grizzly management was so political and they had a team – the Inter-agency Grizzly Bear Study Team – was doing research in the park. I think two things were happening. They had research underway and they were capturing the bears, and they didn’t want anybody else outside of a ring of biologists, if you’d like, to be involved in grizzly studies. It was too political. It would have been a great time to continue some behavioral work because you have all these marked animals around, so individual identification would have been a great thing to do at the time. [20:54] My subsequent work focused on salmon streams. It is a great place to study behavior, as you know, because the bears are coming day after day and you can get to know 30 or 40 bears. You keep identification – photographs and sketches, and you mark where the scars are and which ears are torn and which aren’t. You can with 12 hour day observations with the same bears coming back, even identify them by their modus operandi and how they capture fish and where they capture them. So I had about, I think three students at Katmai who did work. It was a great place to do behavioral observations for the reasons I just stated. BC: How long did that project go for? BG: It started, I believe in the fall of ’83 I went up and did a reconnaissance visit late in the season to see what was needed and what could be done. Then over the winter I interviewed students to do the work. Ann Braaten was the first master’s student. She did her masters degree and then I had two other students. Tamara Olsen, who is managing now, and Scott Fipkin started but he never completed – he almost completed his master’s work. It was all related to bear habituation rates and impacts of numbers of people on bear behavior. That sort of thing. [22:30] BC: You mentioned political nature of grizzly bears. What are some of that – have you seen changes in how the federal government’s dealt with that over the years? BG: Yeah. You know the big questions were whether the bears were in a steep decline. You may remember that John and Frank Craighead had started their pioneering work with radio-collared bears in the park. About that time a new superintendent came in and the park went to what they called a “management natural population regulation” as the way that the animals – the elk, the deer, and the bears would be dealt with, which was pretty much a hands-off sort of thing. An international study team led by Dr. Ian McTaggartCowan at UBC looked at all the data to see whether there was a threat to the population and they recommended an independent study team. As it turned out, Richard Knight was Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  10   �chosen and he was an insider, if you like, a federal government researcher, former university professor, who took on all the grizzly work. The question was, “Are the bears going downhill? How many of them are being killed?” When they close the dump – and I don’t want to get too detailed here – but the issue between the Craigheads and Glen Cole was “what should be done when you close the dump?” The Craigheads believed from their long experience that if you close the dumps, the various dumps to grizzly bears, they will revert to the campgrounds because that’s where the most similar food is going to be. They don’t know what the natural foods are. Glen Cole, and I had talked to Glen Cole about this and he had actually asked me whether I thought the bears should be cutoff cold turkey from the dumps or whether the dumps should be phased out slowly. I made the mistake of saying, “if you want to end the problem I would recommend closing the dumps precipitously.” I think I was in error about that because I didn’t think about the fact that these grizzlies were totally reliant, at least the dump bears were reliant on that garbage. When they were prohibited from getting garbage they had no idea where the other foods were. They couldn’t go find fish, they wouldn’t find Whitebark pine seeds, all the various grizzly foods. They wouldn’t know where the best berry bushes were because they had never accessed them in the summer. They basically were a culture of bears that were living on garbage dumps. So, unbeknownst to anyone, the Park Service dealt with these, if you like, marauding bears but bad choice of word because they were just coming to the fresh garbage in people’s coolers instead of the stale garbage which was in the garbage dumps. It was the same food to them – this is my summary or interpretation, anyway. They came in fairly large numbers. We learned subsequently, it wasn’t until the ‘80s, that over 220 grizzly bears had been killed within about a three year period. I think in the late ‘60s and early ‘70s. I think it was ’69, ’70, ’71, but don’t hold me to that. So here was a major problem. Two sides with different hypotheses and the Park Service never admitted that their hypothesis was wrong! Now you and I, maybe in the ivory tower, could sit here and say, “Well what should have been done?” We might have said, “Well, we don’t have the knowledge, let’s raise these two hypotheses and test what the bears are actually doing.” The bears would tell us, we could put a case of beer on it to make it serious about who’s right and who’s wrong, and find out that in fact the bears were coming into the campgrounds. Instead of shooting them they could’ve done something else – taken road kills and try to lure them away from campgrounds, or even feed them until they get back on finding some new foods. What happened was that the arguments were so contentious and it was going up the federal chain and was a major embarrassment for the Park Service. Everybody had an opinion, of course. The park got so defensive that they told the Craigheads that anything that they said to the press and anything they published had to be run through the park superintendent. Well, the reaction as I understand it by the Craigheads, was “Hell no, we won’t go that route, so we’re out of here. We can’t do research if we can’t talk about what we find.” And so the schism between the two parties was complete at that time. [28:05] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  11   �The inter-agency grizzly bear came in, the Park Service realized, along with other agencies (Forest Service, and whatever else) that were in that Yellowstone ecosystem, that they needed to know how many bears were there. So they started, I guess a three decade study, of collaring bears and doing population dynamic analysis. In other words, how many bears are there and what’s the trend? Are they going up, are they going down? The Craigheads at the time had been very adamant and had population models that showed the bears were on their way to extinction if mortality rates were continuing on. [28:50] So you can see from this that it wasn’t a place for somebody to come in and do some research. They were censoring people, they were refusing – Glacier has never allowed bears to be collared there; Yellowstone was because of political emphasis on losing the bears. A lot of people were very upset around the nation that the Park Service not only was killing bears, but they weren’t recording. None of this data showed up. They basically killed them and buried them. If you talk, I found at least one ranger who told me that he really didn’t want to talk about it to me, but he admitted that they had shot bears in middle of the night and basically dragged them over and threw them off cliffs and things like that, so nobody could discover them. He had heard rumors that people had found piles of bears here, but there was never any accounting. It was really a rather sordid example of bad wildlife management on which I would say the political aspects of it and censorship overcame the need to do good studies and find out what was really going on. I was actually quite happy not to be in the middle of that sort of thing! It wouldn’t be the place you would want to take graduate students and have somebody looking over your shoulder or refusing to let you do certain sort of things. We could have done behavioral studies, but it would have been in the context in with the confounding of all these other handling procedures. I think one of the reasons that Glen Cole once said to me, he said, “nobody on earth would have been allowed to come in and do research right now.” He said, “It’s too hot, it’s too political.” But I think what the sub-text was on that was that we got a lot of rangers that are shooting bears and we don’t want anybody to be looking at this, researchers from Utah State or anybody else. So they closed down research, and tried to “manage” if you like, but they managed by shooting bears because they were risky. They were risky because the Park Service had figured they’d go back into the woods and feed on grizzly foods, and they didn’t do anything of the kind! They came to where the people were and were in their face. You can’t let grizzly bear moms with two cubs walk along the series of tents sniffing whose got the chocolate bars, you know? It was a black eye for wildlife management, actually, during that period, and especially for Yellowstone. That’s the short history anyway! [31:36] BC: Would you say that the wildlife management in federal agencies has become more politicized in recent years, or has it gotten better? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  12   �BG: That’s a good question. I think for a while it was getting better because there seemed to be evidence that bears were increasing. I think now, people are estimating 500, 600 bears in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. But it’s still very contentious because it took a long while to get a good recovery plan, but there weren’t enough positive things – like closing roads in National Forest lands around Yellowstone. There was nothing artificial done to improve the food sources for the bears. In the ‘80s and ‘90s it became clear that some of the major foods – and this is contentious right now, and the Natural Resources Defense Fund is one of the leaders in trying to stop the b-listing of the grizzly bear. It has been b-listed, as you know, but they were against that and filed lawsuits because it appeared that with the loss of the Whitebark pine trees, through both rusts and beetle attacks, they were going to die – that food would be gone. The illegal introduction of lake trout in the Yellowstone Lake was decimating the Yellowstone cutthroat trout, the native cutthroat trout – so that was a concern and that was a major food for at least some bears that were feeding on trout in the streams. The elk were in somewhat of a decline, so people were worried about that. One segment bears were feeding on moths along the Absaroka on the east side in scree fields. This habit of bears to go up there and turn over and eat millions of insects was being driven by a pest in agricultural crops, and there was no guarantee that the spring wouldn’t get rid of them and they would no longer be in the mountains. If you look at it there were at least four foods, the Whitebark pine being the most important energy source for bears – it supported more bears and more calories than any other food, which is strange if you think about the size of a grizzly bear and the fact that it’s eating little tiny seeds. But the seeds were being brought together by the squirrels in middens and the bears could very effectively raid those and get a lot of calories. The Whitebark pine seeds are extremely rich in all the nutrients that a bear could need, especially fat. [34:30] Ron Laner a former professor of forestry and I brought some money together and did an analysis of Whitebark pine seeds. We found that they had all essential amino acids, they were 52% fat. If you and I were going on an extended camping trip and could only take one food, taking pine seeds would be a great food because we would survive well on them alone, as do Clark’s Nutcrackers and some other species too. To get back to the threats, what this prediction of both global climate disruption, or global warming, and the loss of these other foods, some of the advocacy groups, the wildlife grizzly advocacy groups felt it was not the time to take the protection away from the bear. They were concerned about the roads. The mortality rates remained relatively and nobody denies that. I think the numbers of bears have gone up. As you and I have gone to Yellowstone the last two or three weeks, it’s now possible to be almost guaranteed of seeing grizzly bear if you go to the right place. They’ve spread out more, they’re much more visible, they’re eating carcasses, especially in the springtime like now. It isn’t clear to me, or I think to any other scientist that looks at the data that necessarily the extent of the range, the increase in the range, doesn’t mean that there are more bears. It may mean that they are being distributed in a different way. Those questions need answers. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  13   �But biologists, to be fair to them, would say that the evidence is pretty clear that the numbers are up, and I would agree with them there. But are they up enough to have no threats to the genetic makeup of the bears, Yellowstone ecosystem is isolated from all of the other areas. The conservation biologists that are interested in bear survival would like to see enough bears in Yellowstone that they would start moving up to these other areas, like into Idaho, and connect eventually up through Glacier, and the reverse. So there would be more exchange. I think it’s more now an argument about not only do we need the minimum number to determine that they’re not threatened, but currently the set point, if you like, or the goal for grizzlies should be that they are recovered when their densities like they might have been in historical times (like through the 1700 and 1800s). We have a bit of an argument now between the minimalists, if you like, that are happy enough to have a minimum viable population (which is a jargon term) and therefore, that represents the grizzly in that ecosystem; versus the other people, who are I think more biologically oriented, who say, “No we want them there, if they’re recovered they’re there in large enough numbers feeding on natural foods.” [37:44] The whole sub-text of the Yellowstone system is that it’s high elevation, very cold most of the year, so it’s really not North America’s best it’s only the last of what’s left. So they will continue to be threatened unless there are numbers that occupy some of the lowland areas and maybe go out into the streams, or the watersheds, but if you start going down the Yellowstone you run into mega-development pretty quickly, as you do in Paradise Valley. It’s cattle country, it’s condominiums, it’s millionaire’s ranches and all those sorts of things. If Yellowstone had been designed ecologically, it would have included a lot more winter range to the north, as you know, around Gardiner [Montana] and going up toward Livingston [Montana], much of that area and up the Bear River – Bear Gulch to Jardine and some of those areas up above the Lamar [Wyoming] to the north and the Bear Tooth or Absaroka Range. A lot of that is winter range for elk and it would also be winter range for bears. They would be going up there to feed on elk. But that wasn’t included so we have much more of a conflict zone. Again, as you are aware, the bison are a source of conflict because of the so-called Brusolosis problem, which isn’t a problem. [Brucellosis is an infectious disease caused by contact with animals carrying bacteria called Brucella.] The politics drive that. They killed 1600 bison this winter, which inflamed a lot of people because it’s not biologically necessary. Some of these historical problems of not having a complete ecosystem are still visiting the wildlife and their survival in Yellowstone. BC: Sort of makes me curious, how do you prepare a young scientist to learn the scientific method and everything, but then they go to work for these agencies or whatever, to navigate all the politics? BG: Yeah, well that’s another great question. With my students, I like to give them a wellcircumscribed question or hypothesis to develop and keep them away from the politics, at least during their study, and understand what the process of good science is. So if I can get them to piggy-back, even if I’ve taken some money to do a management study, I get Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  14   �them to own another part of the research that’s more academic, if you like, and by that I mean just good science about the animal or animal-human interaction. Then they pick up, I don’t spend a lot time telling them, but they pick up the concept or reality that the science doesn’t drive the decision-making. So you have the science, then you have the management on top of it, and then what drives the management is often the politics of greed, or the politics of value differentials, or the politics of animal protection, livestock protection, people’s fear of grizzlies, all these sorts of things. That’s the battle ground, and I don’t know that you can teach much about it. I mean you can teach good political science, you can teach people to know how to study human attitudes. I guess I’m a bit of a purist and I try to guide the students to do the best science and don’t become anthropocentric. In other words, don’t try to work toward a world where people get everything they want and the animals take the hindermost. My view is that if my students don’t understand the vast ecology and the most complex interaction between animals and people and the ecosystems that support us all, we’ll lose our way. Get the science right, as with spotted owls, or with sage grouse or whatever, find the causes and I tell them to hopefully to have the courage without being fired to call a spade a spade. If the sheep are wiping out the habitat for the sage grouse, which I believe they are, the livestock, they have to come up with that. They can’t cover it over and call it bad range management, or historical problems, or something like that. If you’re going to save the owl, or as we learned with Clinton administration, save the sage grouse you have to back it up with some of the impacts. It’s a tough world for ecologists because they keep asking for things that seem to be idealistic. The public, in my view, is asking people like me, who get paid by them in the state of Utah, to come up with ways to save some of these animals because we’ve obliterated them in 99% of the landscape. [42:46] If you look at grizzly bears, or wolverines or wolves, and I don’t know how a person could say, “Well, there’s no room for wolves, we need all that land.” Well that means you’re basically on your way to turning North American into a great big sprawling metropolis, with no wilderness left. I don’t think anybody wants that. But if you don’t have some goals and visions, that’s what you end up with. So it comes back in a lot of ways to too many people in too many places wanting to have a lifestyle. But we’ll save that soapbox for another day. [Laughing] BC: A couple of questions, because projects sort of couched a little bit around Logan Canyon. Did you do any research at all in Logan Canyon? BG: You know I never have done anything with students. Most of my work has been outside of Utah. I have never had contracts with the Division of Wildlife Resources. When they started bear work they went to BYU, and I don’t know if that was personal connections. It rather angered me for a while that we were the state land-grant university and it was state money and it was going to a private university. I sense that I am a little bit too much of an independent radical and I wouldn’t say what they wanted me to say or necessarily Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  15   �do it the way they wanted it to do, so I feel like I was left out – which suited me fine. I once said to somebody, “I think we in Utah at the university should go to Idaho and do the studies, and the people from the Idaho universities should come to Utah!” [Laughing] And then we wouldn’t run afoul of our legislators. Because, Brad, you know, it doesn’t take much – you can find some literature in your archives where the wool growers and the cattlemen have threatened this college that we’re sitting in here. I’ve seen statements to the effect that “gee, we see that you guys have asked for a budget for a new building. Well, if you think you’re going to get a new building and still keep that guy Bern [Bernard] Shanks, who’s taken on the sagebrush rebellion…” They’re basically saying “Fire that sucker or you won’t get your building.” Bern Shanks did not get tenure, and nobody’s ever explained why it was. He was an excellent teacher and he’s won awards for being a teacher. Whether or not the dean gave him the door or not, we got a lot of political pressure because of positions and defense of public land – it was all a public land issue. It’s not easy trying to represent wild lands. [See also: USU University Archives: 3.1/12-2: Box 11 fd.8: Sagebrush Rebellion] You know the status that wilderness has. People on the right side of things, the rightwingers, view it as an elite useless aspect of land. In fact, I read something the other day from a Montana writer, Bill Schneider, said that wilderness is more a multiple-use than any other use. Mining and cattle are all single-uses that are providing profits for private entities, using public lands. So, you can get into that whole argument too. BC: Because you’ve had experience in Canada and the United States does it differ between the two countries? BG: It differs a lot, yeah. I very much favor the American government in terms of the laws. When you look at the Endangered Species Act, which was passed during Richard Nixon’s term, Clean Water Act, Clean Air Act were re-established I think, and NEPA came in under those terms. Those are very powerful legal tools that can be used to meet the vision that the legislators, federal legislators – senators, congressman – put forward that brought those bills forward. And in contrast, in Canada, it’s very much a discretionary function and the public doesn’t have strong laws. There is no Endangered Species Act in Canada. People have been pushing for it, but it’s never occurred. And when they did get one in Ontario, they had to fight to get things like critical habitat. If an animal without a habitat to survive in is not a favorable outcome. [47:29] U.S. set some precedents, I think, worldwide in the kinds of laws that they’ve come up with. Mind you, the industrial might in this country is tearing up a lot of land right now for oil and gas development; whether those laws are going to stand by us – who knows? But we have the tools; all we lack is the will to continue to use them. I think the people are getting behind groups like Environmental Defense and NRDC [Natural Resources Defense Council]. It’s an unfortunate reality that the public has to spend their money to get the advocacy groups – the big groups like NRDC – to sue people like EPA which are Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  16   �being paid to protect our resources, but aren’t doing it because of political pressures. We have the government in Washington, as you know, that’s dominated by corporate lobbyists – I don’t know there are some 20,000 lobbyists trying to get what they want from our legislators! [Laughing] This is a poor man’s democracy in my view! It’s not the reason I’m moving to Canada. I guess maybe I’m looking for a challenge going to Canada and fighting. It’s pretty much the same in both places. The United States has a lot of well-educated people and has very good ecological and fish and wildlife universities. That’s why so many Canadians come to colleges in natural resources down here. I think both to go to school and to teach. BC: What’s the future of the natural resources profession – I know in the ‘70s it seemed like it kind of boomed and it dipped, and is it coming back or is it --? BG: That’s a tough one. I guess I’m an optimist to say that I see resurgence in the future. Partly because the corporate dominance is getting through to people in a very large way, including Republicans that really dislike giveaways to rich corporations. And I think the global climate disturbance is so all-encompassing that people are seriously threatened by the whole thing. And there are tons of other indicators, like the decline of fisheries around the world, we’re losing all our large pelagic or open-ocean fish like the blue marlin, white marlin, sail fin, the tunas – the big tunas, swordfish. These are all on their way to extinction and to me that is quite tragic. I worked on swordfishing boats when I was an undergraduate in 1959, as I mentioned, and we were getting fish that weighed 600 and 700 pounds. You’ll never see those again. They’re just not allowed to grow that large, where they catch them around the 40 to 60 pound range. That is a recipe for extinction. People like Carl Safina in Long Island – he’s got a successful advocacy group for marine species and trying very hard to save them before they disappear because once gone, it’s gone forever. But I’m hopeful. I think if we get a change in government and we can get away from the rabid materialism in this country we might have a chance. It’s all driven by oil and gas and it’s kind of scary. It makes you want to buy a bicycle! [Laughing] [51:06] BC: Well I’ll kind of maybe end up for today’s session and I always like to ask if you could’ve changed anything about your life would you have? BG: I think I would’ve taken on and done research in more areas. I look back and I sense that I was a little too reticent, lacking courage to tackle some questions that as I look back I was right, but I didn’t have the confidence. It’s a strange thing to say, but I guess it’s part of my personality that I edge my way into these things to see whether there’s enough success going to be there, and I should’ve just said, “hell with it, I’ll take a chance!” Because research, when it’s done right is new knowledge and you have to be willing to fail. You have these mental images, which we call “ideas” about what could be. And I’ve had a couple of instances where I had a hunch and I never followed it up and it turned out I was right but I was left behind because somebody else did follow up. I think it’s maybe Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  17   �a lesson when you’re working with students to follow your hunches and take some chances. There isn’t much about my career, if anything, I would’ve changed. I look back and feel like I’ve experienced the greatest parts of North American and East Africa and the Caribbean that I’ve gone to with, I’ve had really great students who have been enthusiastic, both at the undergraduate and graduate level. And, how could you not, if you love wilderness and love the outdoors and you’re a bio-philiac as E.O. Wilson says people that love animals. I’ve worked with dolphins; I’ve worked with swordfish like I’ve said, pronghorn, deer, rhinoceros, elephant seals, bears – polar bears, black bears. It’s been a great life. BC: Alright. One more question: do you have any spiritual connection to the natural world? [53:39] BG: Only, I guess in a sense of wonder. I don’t have any religious connection. I don’t feel like I’m doing God’s work on earth saving critters. I’m actually quite a rabid atheist when it gets down to it because I think organized religions do a lot of mischief and are very misguided. As I said to someone, “why would carry ideas, Paleolithic ideas in the 20th century? Why don’t we invent a couple of new religions that are more in tune with ecological thinking?” But I don’t think I’ll start a new religion. But I do, I’ve got to admit I have a sense, I think from childhood, and maybe we all do this, I’m not peculiar, that there is a certain sacredness in our respect to the natural world. And we tear it apart rather willy-nilly for very mediocre reasons, I think. I think it’s very easy for us to get carried away with comfort, oh, materialistic things: cars that are too big and houses that are too big and appetites that are too big – all of which lead us downhill. Someone I was reading the other day said that if we could convert to more poetry and art and spirituality and history, and forget so much the comforts and add-ons, we would probably have a richer mental life. I guess I buy in – I don’t guess, I know I do – I buy in with the Bob Marshalls of this world in terms of wanting to save some wilderness. A lot of people love dinosaurs, and maybe they’d like to have a land with dinosaurs, but our grizzly bears and our big fish are our dinosaurs and we ought to save them so people in the future – whether they’re our grandchildren or just other folks can have some of these experiences as well. BC: That’s great. Anything else you would like to add? BG: I think I’ve already talked too much! BC: Alright. BG: I appreciate the opportunity. BC: That’s great. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Barrie Gilbert Interview     Page  18   � Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Where else is this found? Give the URL for the item, if it is in another respository (like CONTENTdm) <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/LoganCanyon/id/115">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/LoganCanyon/id/115</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Hosted by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Conversion Specs Recording equipment: Marantz PMD660 Digital Recorder Transcription equipment: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2012-08-22 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Barrie Gilbert interview, 21 May 2008, and transcription Description An account of the resource The interview contains a brief description of Barrie Gilbert's childhood and details of his schooling and subsequent career in wildlife management. It includes his story of being attacked by a grizzly bear, his attitudes on wildlife management in both the U.S. and Canada, and the political pressures he and others face(d) in doing research in wildlife management and in management policies. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Barrie K., 1937- Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cole, Bradford R. Subject The topic of the resource Gilbert, Barrie K., 1937---Interviews Gilbert, Barrie K., 1937---Childhood and youth Utah State University. Dept. of Natural Resources--Faculty--Interviews Kingston (Ont. : Township) Professional education--Ontario--Kingston (Township) Animal behavior--Study and teaching Animal behavior--Research Yellowstone National Park Human-bear encounters--Research Bear attacks--Yellowstone National Park Katmai National Park and Preserve (Alaska)--Research Bear hunting Wildlife management Bears--Research--Yellowstone National Park Ecology Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Oral histories Interviews Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Kingston (Ontario) Ontario Lake (New York) Yellowstone National Park Katmai National Park and Preserve (Alaska) Alaska United States Logan (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1970-1979 1980-1989 1990-1999 20th century 2000-2009 21st century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection, FOLK COLL 42 Box 2 Fd. 6 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection can be found at: <a href="http://library.usu.edu/folklo/folkarchive/FolkColl42.php">http://library.usu.edu/folklo/folkarchive/FolkColl42.php</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Fife Folklore Archives Curator, phone (435) 797-3493 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FolkColl42bx2fd7BarrieGilbert Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 21 May 2008 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2008-05-21 Is Version Of A related resource of which the described resource is a version, edition, or adaptation. Changes in version imply substantive changes in content rather than differences in format. Logan Canyon Reflections https://highway89.org/files/original/87f27be5fc4b44715c9e736513b021d3.mp3 4afbeb1cc783da65344622f31dc0babe https://highway89.org/files/original/45987ab74b11c9efbdb8c823a81f8a0c.pdf 52c21a00eb8658d9b61ec2b9c93e8162 PDF Text Text LAND USE MANAGEMENT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: Katherine Gilbert Place of Interview: 1636 Sunset Drive Logan, UT Date of Interview: 8 April 2008 Interviewer: Recordist: Barbara Middleton Barbara Middleton Recording Equipment: Transcription Equipment used: Transcribed by: Transcript Proofed by: Radio Shack Cassette Recorder: CTR-122 Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems Susan Gross Kathy Gilbert [who made some additions] and Barbara Middleton; Randy Williams (29 June 2011) Brief Description of Contents: Katherine Gilbert briefly talks about her childhood in Canada and fond memories of outdoor experiences in her youth. She discusses her college education and subsequent jobs and training, and then speaks about influences as an adult which inspired her to be proactive toward protecting the natural beauties surrounding her residence. She discusses the formation of the Citizens for the Protection of Logan Canyon [CPLC] and her role within the organization. She talks about the CPLC’s part in the planning of improvements and expansion of the highway and bridges in Logan Canyon. Reference: BM = Barbara Middleton (Interviewer; Interpretive Specialist, Environment & Society Dept., USU College of Natural Resources) KG = Katherine Gilbert NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [Tape 1 of 1: A] BM: This is Barbara Middleton and this is tape one, side one on Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Project. We’re here with Katherine Gilbert at 1636 Sunset Drive in Logan, Utah. And it is Tuesday April 8, 2008. Katherine, would you introduce yourself? KG: Yes. It’s a pleasure to do this Barbara. I’m going to use the cheat sheet here and look at the questions. Did you want to ask me the questions first, or did you want me to just refer to them? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  1   �BM: Go ahead and just refer to them, that’s fine. KG: Okay. [Reading question to self] What is your background and please describe your schooling, training in your field? Well I have a had a love affair with Utah since 1976 when my husband and I and two children returned to Logan after my husband having had the opportunity to spend a year and a half here as a post-doc. When we came here he was in the Department of Fisheries and Wildlife in the College of Natural Resources and I was a mom at home. And of course we just absolutely adored having Logan Canyon at our back door, and we partook of many activities in the canyon; whether it was hiking in the fall or in the spring or skiing at Beaver Mountain in the winter, and ultimately cross-country skiing. My background is that I had an undergraduate degree in the hard sciences from Queens University. And by hard science I meant it was mainly chemistry with a little bit of biology. After that training I worked in medical centers; first of all in Montreal – Montreal was where I was born (Quebec, Canada), and for five years at Duke University in an immunology research lab where they were doing some of the first kidney transplants. After I came to Utah and my children were in school I got a master’s degree in School Psychology. I worked for Cache County school district for approximately 20 years after getting my masters degree in school psychology. I just recently retired in June of 2006. [Stop recording] BM: Alright, we’re back on. KG: Okay so Barbara has asked me to say when I was born. It was 1942 in Montreal. I grew up there. And I think that my love of the out of doors was inspired by my wonderful summers in the Laurentian Mountains and at a wonderful lake where we swam and boated and hiked and just literally spent every day outside. The next part she’s asked me to add to was when I got my undergraduate degree, which was in 1963 at Queens University, Kingston, Ontario. And after that I returned to Montreal for a couple of years where I worked at Primary Children’s Hospital in a blood lab, basically just doing standard analysis for medical purposes, which at that time was not automated but was starting to be automated. I came to the United States in 1965 and lived in North Carolina for five years, where my husband was doing a PhD graduate degree. At that time, that’s when I worked in the immunology lab at Duke University Medical Center which was really a booming, growing university with a lot of funding from NIH [National Institutes of Health]. So that was an exciting field to be in. We were looking at the basic immunology of transplants – looking at what caused the tissue to be rejected. We were working with mice strains. I Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  2   �worked for five years in the immunology lab and taught school for one year at Durham Academy, a private school. Have I answered enough of those questions? BM: That’s fine. KG: [Reading question to self] So who were some of the most influential teachers in instructing you in your field and why were they so influential? I can’t say that for this work that I became involved with in Logan Canyon it was teachers, per se, but it was the outdoor experiences growing up – which was in the ‘50s which had to be ideal because one was able to escape to the country and live the simple life relatively easily. And so I had wonderful summers in the Laurentian Mountains. And also being at Queens University which is on the Saint Lawrence River right where Lake Ontario starts; and that was a lovely natural area to be able to look at every day of your life because the university was on the lake. BM: Kathy, a little bit on the Laurentian Mountains – do you think you could tell us where they are like points in between if you wanted to locate those on the map? KG: Yes. We were about 45 miles north of Montreal. You would head up into these rolling hills – they’re much like the Adirondacks, they’re old, old mountains. And they’re developed in the winter for skiing. The towns that I would have been near, close to where our lake was, were Saint Sauveur (and those are paintings of Saint Sauveur on the wall there; old with the horse drawn buggies and 20 years later). BM: We’re looking at two pictures, great winter scenes, are those oils? KG: Yes. And they’re done by a very well-known Canadian artist. I’ve carried those around with me over the years to remind me of Saint Sauveur. BM: Wonderful. Is that somebody skating? KG: It’s just a kid in a toque on the street. BM: In a toque? KG: The red toque. [Knitted hat: beanie.] Houses were very brilliantly colored, painted – it’s French Canadian. Then from Saint Sauveur the next town was Morin Heights and that was actually an English enclave in the Laurentians, and it still is to this day. And then Sixteen Island Lake (which literally had 16 islands) was a beautiful lake; pristine, clear – it had no road down it so when we went down the lake to see our friends or go to the clubhouse, one would go on a boat (which for us was a flat-bottom rowboat with seven horsepower Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  3   �motor on it). We went there every summer. It’s called “Lac des Seize Iles” in French and there are some people who have lived on the lake for generations. It was a physical landscape that you learn as a child and those memories stay with you the rest of your life. BM: Were there other siblings then that were with you, brothers and sisters? KG: Yes, I was the oldest of three so we all went as a family. So that would have been the influence for my enchantment with the West, to come west and to see all these beautiful open lands and running streams and the opportunity to live at the mouth of Logan Canyon. I think when you’ve grown up in a more developed area the opportunity to live in a more natural area is very attractive. Okay, the next question about [reading question to self] What were your family’s land use traditions? Were there special celebrations during the year that you remember and want to share? As far as Logan Canyon goes we certainly enjoyed it for hikes and walks and retreats on the weekend, especially going skiing. It gave the children an excellent opportunity to learn downhill skiing, which I think is a great sport at certain times in your life and a way to meet people and be active. I think people who like the winter find a way to spend time outside. BM: Is that Beaver Mountain then? KG: Yes, we went to Beaver Mountain. BM: What are other places then in the canyon that the kids really enjoyed that you went to specifically. KG: I think as far as going as a family, we just did hiking – short hikes, maybe up to the Wind Caves and that sort of thing. And then I think when the kids were in high school they went on their own – like they could drive up. And I’m sure they had picnics. They didn’t use the canyon a lot. We tended to leave Logan in the summer, so our recreation was back East with our family on the Saint Lawrence River. My hobbies and recreational pursuits are again just outdoor activities. I enjoy getting out. And certainly as I gave up the downhill skiing I really enjoyed going to places like Temple Fork and some of the cross-country ski trails around Beaver, before they came inundated with snowmobilers. Wood Camp Hollow BM: Saint Anne’s? KG: Yes, but what’s the marker on the road? [Stop and start recording] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  4   �KG: Right Hand Fork was another favorite place, mainly because it was close. (So have we finished, I think I finished that page, yes.) [Reading question to self] To connections to Logan Canyon, what was your earliest memory of Logan Canyon? Well my earliest memory was the early ‘70s, probably 1970 when we actually came to Logan, my husband had a post-doc here and we actually camped in Logan Canyon near the Zanavoo Lodge. There is a name for that campground, but we camped there and looked for a place to live. It’s quite dramatic driving down Logan Canyon for the first time. [Stop and start recording] So it was Bridger Campground. And then of course living near the university and living at the mouth of the canyon, you know, we went up to the lower part quite frequently just for day walks or short walks. BM: And how long did you live there? KG: Live where? BM: At the campground? KG: Oh, we just stayed there a week or something. Yes, we just stayed there a week and looked for housing. BM: Okay. KG: I think it was a week. I wasn’t too impressed camping with a new baby. [Laughing] BM: How old? KG: Oh about four months, I don’t know – I don’t remember. I’m trying to think when we came. It was the end of summer I think. BM: So it was fairly dry. KG: Yes, it was dry. It was cold at night. And we were in a Volkswagen Bug with a roof rack on and, anyway. BM: That’s great! [Laughing] KG: [Reading question to self] So in what areas of Logan Canyon were you most active? Special places? What is your favorite place in the canyon? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  5   �I was most active in Temple Fork, Tony Grove, Right Hand Fork, loved the Summit for skiing in the winter – the Sinks before all the snowmobilers went up there; Beaver Mountain for skiing. BM: I can’t imagine how that area, especially, Beaver Mountain area and that Sinks area has changed. KG: Oh, it’s just remarkably changed; and we can thank Doug Thompson, our Logan mayor, for that who advertised nationally for snowmobiling in that area. And that will be another topic, I think in your interview about the canyon and the policy and the motorized traffic transport; the amount of canyon areas dedicated to that. But that, I think, is probably treated better in the comment about the Forest Service management about the canyon. BM: Can I just ask you one question? KG: Sure. BM: Getting up there, the road has changed, but time wise how long did it take you to drive up to a place like Beaver to go with your kids; and the road conditions at that time --? KG: Were excellent. It was well plowed. We would allow 45 minutes – of course in the spring when the road is bare and dry you could maybe come home faster. When we started using Logan Canyon it had the upgrade of the lower ten miles or whatever it is. When you start at Logan and go up the canyon – that had always been finished when we used it. That was in the ‘60s I think, late ‘60s that they did that. BM: Did the canyon ever close because of bad weather? Was that a fairly frequent-? KG: No. Never. Never that I remember. Let’s see now. What are some of the major influences, obvious needs that helped you make the choice to pursue this connection with Logan Canyon? We obviously used it and got to know it. A turning point for me was coming back from a sabbatical in Australia and we had had a wonderful opportunity to spend a lot of time on the east coast and get out to the Great Barrier Reef. A few people and the beautiful areas in Australia and it was brought home rather quickly that the people that are living in the area are the people that are going to protect it. So part of this project is to document the second upgrading of the road – the higher part of the canyon. And I returned to Logan just at this time when they were making the proposals for what road modifications they were going to make to handle the traffic better. BM: So what year are we talking about? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  6   �KG: Well I think we’re talking about 1995, but you would want – it could be ’94, it could have been started. I’ve had a hard time remembering – there was a lot of talk about this road and what was going to be modified and I don’t know that, again this is the place to talk about that. If you want to get through this questionnaire and then sort of chunk the road development, the influence that the Citizens for the Protection of Logan Canyon had on how that road was so-called “improved” and then about the land management uses -because that all kind of goes together in a bundle. BM: Would the sabbatical year would have been ’94-’95? KG: Yes. BM: Okay, okay. KG: Yes. And I can certainly confirm that. Unfortunately I’ve packed a lot of that information, like pictures from my trip and stuff. I could be off by a year or two. I’m sure that this will come together when you start looking at other people’s data, so I wouldn’t be the only source of information on that. BM: Right. So part of what you’re saying here is that this sabbatical influence was being able to be in a place like eastern Australia and then coming back and being confronted with seeing what changes were about to happen? KG: Yes. Plus it was pretty arbitrary what was going to happen. People wanted to get up to Bear Lake faster – it was hard to trail a boat in the narrow canyon. People in Garden City wanted to get to the hospital faster. So there was quite a push to upgrade the transportation corridor. The tractor transports wanted a shorter route to I-80 and using Logan Canyon accomplishes that. The truckers wanted a safer canyon. These were all rationales for making a wider, straighter highway. But maybe keeping the trucks out of the canyon would make it safer! At the beginning, we weren’t aware of the truck lobby for an upgrade of the canyon to make it safer. However, we won’t digress on that one at this point. [Reading question to self] What are some of the major influences, oh yes, that helped you make the choice. It was the contrast, it was the beauty and the uniqueness of the Great Barrier Reef and it makes you frame again what is unique in your area. And there is no question that Logan Canyon is unique. It is a Scenic Byway; it has not been developed, like many of the canyons in the intermountain west where you have little enclaves of private holdings (so you get little stores and gas stations and conglomeration of cottages or whatever). Logan Canyon is scenic and continues to be scenic. [Reading question to self] Land use changes in Logan Canyon. How have you contributed to Land Use Changes in Logan Canyon? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  7   �Well, basically I haven’t. That is an issue with how you get the Forest Service to look after land use. And we have tried for 15 years to change it and we still have the same status quo. Again, I’d rather talk about that when we talk about the forest plans and of course it was the Wasatch-Cache Forest when I was working on it but now it’s the Wasatch-Cache-Uinta Forest. [Reading question to self] So what is your overall impression how land use policies are determined in Logan Canyon? In the Wasatch-Cache-Uinta National Forest? [Stop and start recording] KG: Okay, are we on here? BM: We are on. KG: Okay. Barbara has asked me to talk a little bit more about the influence in my personal life of what prompted me to become impassioned about Logan Canyon and preserving its natural beauty and integrity and treating it with respect as we would like to see future generations enjoy it as much as we have. I mentioned earlier in the tape that it was coming back from Australia and seeing the beautiful landscapes there, particularly the Great Barrier Reef and how unique it was and how fragile it was, and getting the concept that really even though I love the Great Barrier Reef it’s the people that live there who need to protect it and look after it and be aware of what’s going on. And I was in the Great Barrier Reef in the mid-90s so we weren’t talking about global warming and all the things that are happening to the reefs very quickly around the world. But long before I got involved with Logan Canyon there were a group of people at Utah State who were very concerned about the impact of a road and the impact on the natural beauty of it – back in the ‘60s. (And just as a side, as we started to work on the road and whether it needed to be straightened or bridges needed to be widened, Paul Packer who worked for the Forest Service for years, when he made a comment about the road once. He said, “Those original road builders for Logan Canyon in the ‘30s did a marvelous job of following the natural contours and it is a scenic byway and it should stay that way because you can’t widen it in the narrow parts without destroying it.” So to give Barbara a list of the people who I know worked on the early issues in Logan Canyon were: Tom Lyon (he was in the English Department and he did a lot of nature writing); Bill Helm (was a Fishery Biologist); Jack Spence (was a Chemistry professor); Ron Goede and John Neuhold (Ron is a Fisheries Biologist and so is John. John worked at the university, Ron worked for the state). But when I became involved with Logan Canyon and the issue of the new road, it was Bruce Pendrey and Steve Flint who had carried on the task of monitoring developments in Logan Canyon. Before CPLC formed officially, in other words became incorporated as a non-profit, these two guys who were in the Range Science Department at USU, were writing to or communicating with UDOT Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  8   �(Utah Department of Transportation) and the Forest Service and keeping an eye on what was going on and trying to alert the public about the issues of Logan Canyon and improvement on the road. And before I say anything more about the issues that CPLC worked on, the lower part of the canyon (and I believe it’s the lower seven to 10 miles) was improved in the ‘60s. And it was a Fishery Biologist like Bill Helm who was just dumbfounded what they did to the river because if you want to have a good trout stream you need pools of slow water and you don’t want to force the river in to a narrow channel. When you widen the road you make the river faster and straighter. I remember at one of the public meetings a presenter showing us a picture of the lower canyon before it was widened. And he made the comment, “You think Logan Canyon is beautiful now, you should have seen it before they widened it.” Literally the trees arched right over the whole road. It was literally like driving into the woods, this picture, from the lower – right after you cross the bridge where you enter the canyon. Right there at, is it First Dam? BM: Boy. KG: So, there’s no question that they did some major road revision and I’m not an expert to know specifically what was done but I’m sure it’s there if you want to interview these other people. So the reason that the public – and I say the public – because we were able to fill places like the Logan Middle School auditorium, we were able to fill it with people when UDOT scheduled public meetings to tell us what they were going to do with this road; how they were going to improve it. And you have to remember that it was the consulting companies like C2HMHill [from their website: 6/30/2011: As a global leader in consulting, design, design-build, operations, and program management, CH2M HILL has the human and technical resources, the international footprint, and the depth of knowhow and experience to help clients achieve success in any corner of the world.], who are huge national consulting company, who made very, very thick books on what they were going to do. It was really something to try and convince them they that needed to be more sensitive to the canyon. [Stop and start recording] BM: We’re on again. KG: So I should just add that when they first did the improvement in Logan Canyon there was no NEPA process (which means National Environmental Planning Act) which was passed in the early ‘70s. And that’s something that I won’t go into now. But now when you have national lands, public lands, you have to follow that process. So I would like to start how the citizens in Logan and surrounding areas became more specifically involved with the second project that UDOT was going to do in Logan Canyon. The bridges needed to be replaced and the approaches to the bridges needed to be replaced. So there was a process for that that was a pretty big learning curve for all of us. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  9   �And I’ll stop at that place and let you turn the tape? Or do you want to -- ? BM: That’s good. [Stop and start recording] [Tape 1 of 1: B] BM: We’re starting Tape 1, Side 2 with Kathy Gilbert. Kathy, go ahead. KG: It soon became evident to the people that had been monitoring the proposals for road improvements that it was actually going to happen. And so there was a small group of people, again, that decided that they would try to do something, to find out more about the process. Bruce and Steve no longer had the time; so six of us joined together to take a look at so-called road improvements. And we met regularly and we looked at what we had to do. And I personally remember saying, “Well I will go to the Forest Service and see how they’re going to monitor, how they’re going to look after the forest when the Department of Transportation decides to build a highway through it.” And I didn’t even know there were things like a forest plan. But what I quickly learned was that the Forest Service was just going to stand by and let UDOT or C2HMHill tell them the kind of road to build. The Forest Service might monitor a stream here and there, but that was it. For this road upgrade the NEPA process was in effect. This meant public meetings and an opportunity to comment on plans. The proponents of roads are very good at drawing up these plans and it is difficult for individuals to challenge the system. The proponent usually gets what they want and it was obvious that the Forest Service was not going to be proactive in protecting the forest or the river. Once the Record of Decision (ROD) was issued by the State of Utah, we had a number of challenges. We challenged the amount of road widening needed for the bridges, especially in the lower canyon, how the bridges would be built and how they would take out the old bridge so impact to the river would be minimal. We wanted building materials that integrated with the natural landscape. But to give you an overview, a group of us formed the Citizens for the Protection of Logan Canyon (CPLC). We incorporated as a non-profit, so we had our bylaws and we had our mode of operation (with the president, and a secretary and a treasurer). We took that Record of Decision, and I have to say that Sean Swaner who was a student at USU in biology lead the charge. He was brilliant and a quick study on many issues. He had great people skills and did an incredible amount of work talking to the engineers about the actual design of the road and why we should have a shorter wide approach to the bridge. CPLC recruited lots of members and got members out to public hearings. Utah Department of Transportation (UDOT) was willing to listen to the public. They had had a major fiasco with widening Provo Canyon and they wanted to do better. Over a period of Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  10   �about a year we got many changes that reduced the impact of the road and protected the canyon and the river. We did need a safer road; we did need the bridges replaced. And I think it was one of these situations where, no, we didn’t get everything but we got a lot of accommodations that preserved the canyon. And that was good. BM: In terms of feeling positive that UDOT really did make an effort to listen and incorporate some of these – KG: Yes, they did. I mean I’m not saying that they just did it willingly from the beginning. We had a lot of correspondence and had to hire a lawyer to press our case. It was a huge effort on our part. We tried to get the Forest Service involved so that they would stand up for what needed to be done for preservation. We didn’t want a big wide road and I think if you drive it now you’ll see that there isn’t one. I mean there are some wider lanes up by Red Banks campground that we didn’t think were needed, but that is not significant compared to the overall changes. [KG wrote: BM your question is missing here. This following paragraph is about the visitor center that Logan Canyon Coalition worked on to reduce its impact.] Certainly this is a project that took place much later, it’s just recently been finished, is the new Visitors’ Center at the summit. CPLC only negotiated for the road. We didn’t get everything, but there were some people in the group who felt like we should get more and they broke off and formed Logan Canyon Coalition. And the persons that were most involved with that initially were Gordon Steinhoff and Kevin Kobe, and they would certainly be people worth interviewing for that because I didn’t keep up with it at that point. I felt like we’d gotten the best we could and the construction was starting. And that was it, it was finished; it was a done deal. Once the road construction started I took a rest from it. There were volunteers involved in monitoring during the construction but basically CPLC took a rest. Some of us felt that the road was no longer an issue and that it was land management practices that would have a bigger long term effect on the canyon. This is the domain of the Forest Service. So I think I’m going to defer to Barbara here and see if she has any questions; more about the formation of CPLC, and what we did or didn’t do. BM: What year was that when you split? KG: I can’t remember the year we split. The year we incorporated was 1995. And that went on until – as far as the road issue and the bridges and the building of the road – that went on to 2000. We did not get involved in anything from the summit down to Garden City. We felt if they wanted a straight-away, they could have it. It was really the river and the protection of the canyon – the narrow part of the canyon – that we were interested in. BM: So the summit, exactly, what would be a great reference point for people who are in that canyon? Limber Pine trail? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  11   �KG: Yes. BM: Okay. KG: You’re just at the very top and you’re almost looking down on Bear Lake, really, or the new rest stop. BM: You mentioned that in the CPLC you also had students and landscape architecture involved. Because we’re at the university, would you just mention some of those other departments besides Landscape Architecture and Natural Resources? KG: They weren’t any departments involved. It was people like, for instance, Mike Timmons in the Landscape Architecture department and he had been involved with some of those early people with the first road upgrade in the 60’s. He said when he first moved to Logan that was one of the first things he heard about – is this road that they were going to build. This road was always going to happen. The second part of this project was always in the distant future. We knew it was coming and UDOT has its budgets and it replaces bridges and it widens roads as the budgets come up and they’re available. So I think people were stunned at what they did in the lower part of the canyon. I wasn’t because I never saw it before. So that’s just – we were primed! [Laughing] BM: Well and also with that UDOT back run you mentioned with Provo Canyon being – did you say a “failure” or --- KG: Well, I don’t know that it was a failure. It was very expensive for them and they did try to make it into four lanes – and I guess it is four lanes. But it was another very scenic canyon that was a massive construction project. I can’t comment on it, I just know that there were slides and they were over-budget and that sort of thing. So I’m sure it was distressing to all the people involved. BM: In those kinds of influences have got to be part of the history of why things happen at different times – KG: Right. BM: Such as, you know, UDOT maybe listening a little bit better. KG: Right. Right. I know. And again, I did not do that negotiating part. Sean did; he was incredible. BM: Do you think there were other influences in the Cache Valley community during this mid-90s to early 2000 era that were influential besides just land use management? Are there other – can you reflect on any other kind of history or movements that are going on? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  12   �KG: Well, Bridgerland Audubon Society was the people that were the umbrella group for CPLC and the road. They were supportive of us – in other words, I think it’s really important when you’re doing this grassroots work that you have a group that you can connect to. Bridgerland is another 5013C – or a non-profit. They had people, they had the contacts, they had a newsletter that went out once a month. So they were certainly an umbrella group for people who were interested in becoming more active in how the road – you know, the impact of the road. BM: Were there other issues at the time that they were involved with? I know wetlands, right now is a very big issue, and protecting Cutler, and that….. KG: Right. I can’t speak to that because I was not a member of Audubon. I certainly knew of it and had friends who were in Audubon but I wasn’t involved with Audubon, so I couldn’t tell you. BM: Okay. [Stop and start recording] BM: What are the aspects of this projects with policy and with involvement – which I phrase as “participatory democracy” – and is important for all levels of our population to hear is the challenge of involvement and also the joys of being involved with that. And I wonder if you could reflect a little on that, on your role? KG: Well I like the idea of the joys of it because I certainly met a tremendous diversity of people and it was really fun to work with them and to see their passion. And so when you get involved with something like CPLC or protecting Logan Canyon, it is very reinforcing to work with others who have the same passion. And I think if you asked all those people to show their favorite family pictures – we all have pictures standing at Wind Caves on a beautiful fall afternoon, or standing by the river – and the idea that it could be lost is really quite a tragic thought to people. So that is where the initial motivation comes from: to want to protect something that’s in your backyard, that’s in your everyday experience that adds pleasure to your life. And then when you start to work at it and you see the mammoth institutions that you are up against, such as the highway department (“we build roads, we fix bridges we do it the way the engineers tell us to do it”); or the Forest Service (“Traditionally we’ve run cattle on these lands; they’re degraded, we know they’re degraded; we have experts on plant ecology and streams and fish but right now, politically we can’t do anything.”). So that can be a huge stumbling block that you feel you’re up against these institutions or these have agencies that lots of money and power. But at the end of the day, for me as I started to work on it – first of all it was an education process – learning about streams, fish, plants, cattle, whatever; even meeting ranchers that I never would have had the opportunity to meet – is that I was going to try to influence activities (whether it’s road building, cattle running, forest management) Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  13   �because at the end of the day if it wasn’t fixed or it was done, it wouldn’t be for lack of trying. That’s a very roundabout way of saying at the end of the day I gave it a fair shot. And I had lots of people to help. Lots of professionals who were also passionate about it – maybe didn’t have the time, but certainly gave of their professional knowledge. And you work at these things as long as you can work at them and do it at a level that is satisfying to you. And I felt like I had to learn quite a bit before I could write letters to the Forest Service or to UDOT or to whomever I was communicating with. But at the end of the day you just have to say your part. And that’s where it’s at. BM: And you felt like you had a tremendous team working with you at that time? KG: Well yes, everybody had great ideas. Yes, there were a lot of people and they’re out there. They’re out there for everything if you’re willing to seek them out. There are currently people in the valley, like the Bear River Watershed Council, who have continued on. I’m not up on what Audubon is doing these days, but I haven’t been living here so. [Stop and start recording] BM: Kathy, do you have a particular story that you would like to share from your work here in Cache Valley, in Logan Canyon, a particular one that comes to mind? In terms of walking the landscape with some of your colleagues on this, a particular place? KG: Well we did a lot of work up Spawn Creek and I have that documented in a book, where we were looking at the impact of cattle on the land and measuring sediment in the stream. And the Forest Service has had that as sort of their exemplary place. Again, I’m not up to speed on what’s happening right now. But it was fun to go up with John Carter and my husband Barrie, and the few people that came to do those treks – to just walk the stream and see it at different times of year. But I don’t really have any specific story in the canyon, except to be astounded to some of the ugly places due to what the cattle of done. And I mean it’s documented in pictures. I mean it’s just trashed, like beaver dams that are just – well you wouldn’t want to even eat your lunch there. BM: And overgrazing? KG: Yes, well it’s just abuse of the land. It’s just not good management. And I think it’s very sad. BM: What about books or writings that have influenced you? KG: Yes. I mentioned earlier today – Debra Donahue, Revisiting Western Lands [The Western Range Revisited: Removing Livestock from Public Lands to Conserve Native Biodiversity (1999)]; Wallace Stegner who writes eloquently about issues in the western landscape. I frankly can’t remember the names and the titles, but I did read books that Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  14   �were recommended by friends and colleagues. And I certainly will get the names of those to you. BM: And why the Donahue book -- Revisiting Western Lands? KG: Well she had such an experience – both from the legal perspective, she’s in the law school in Wyoming. The head of the State Senate tried to get her fired when she came out with her book. You’d have to read Andy Kerr’s review on that website. It’s been a while since I’ve read it; it’s just that she had a great combination of knowledge about the landscape and then the legal part of it. So it was very brave of her to write that book and it was very informative for those who are trying to get the federal agencies to do their job. BM: And that was published about when? KG: I don’t know. I think mid-90s; I can’t tell you. I don’t have the book right now to lay my hands on it. BM: Okay, I can look that up; and then Stegner also? KG: Yes, Wallace Stegner. BM: Um-hmm. KG: He actually came to Utah State in the ‘70s to give seminars to the English Department, if you can believe it! How did I get involved with him? I don’t know, I just like his writings. He did a lot of nature writing – I can’t tell you. I read his biography. He’s eloquent. BM: Was he here with the Western Writers Project with Tom Lyon? KG: I think so. I don’t know. I wasn’t here – I didn’t come until ’76 to Logan. And my understanding he was really here the early ‘70s, but he gave workshops regularly. All his papers are in University of Utah. BM: That must have incredible to see him. KG: Yes, it would be. BM: And hear him. KG: Um-hmm, um-hmm. BM: Okay. Anything else you’d like to add for today’s tape? We’re going to continue at a later date, looking at some of the specific letters and some of the other work that you’ve done with the CPLC. But anything else for today that you’d like to add to culminate our visit? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  15   �KG: I don’t think so; I think that’s just about it. BM: Well thank you very much for today’s interview. KG: You’re welcome! Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  8  April  2008     Page  16   � https://highway89.org/files/original/c94ac092808436836b10ec4a9d32eba5.mp3 de4ab70137316b8395c4a8d8076edb31 https://highway89.org/files/original/f63c793673e7543a4a93195ce22988f9.pdf e69442e9721f537a78e61e144ac97ed0 PDF Text Text LAND USE MANAGEMENT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: Katherine Gilbert Place of Interview: Katherine Gilbert’s home in Logan, UT Date of Interview: 29 April 2008 Interviewer: Recordist: Barbara Middleton Barbara Middleton Recording Equipment: Transcription Equipment used: Transcribed by: Transcript Proofed by: Radio Shack Cassette Tape Recorder: CTR-122 Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems Susan Gross Katherine Gilbert [who added some information] and Barbara Middleton; Randy Williams (30 June 2011) Brief Description of Contents: Kathy speaks about the direction the Citizens for the Protection of Logan Canyon [CPLC] took after the completion of the Logan Highway project; getting involved in land use management issues. She also discusses the differences between the CPLC and the Logan Canyon Coalition [LCC]. She ends the interview with some memories of growing up in Montreal and skiing in the Laurentian Mountains. Reference: BM = Barbara Middleton (Interviewer; Interpretive Specialist, Environment & Society Dept., USU College of Natural Resources) KG = Katherine Gilbert NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [Tape 1 of 1: A] BM: We’re here with Kathy Gilbert on Tuesday, April 29, 2008. We’re in her home on Sunset Drive in Logan. And we are here to continue with our discussion with Logan Canyon and the oral histories and some of the activities that Kathy was involved with through the CPLC and some of the other organizations. Okay Kathy. Kathy’s got a map in front of her and is going to talk a little bit about the location of some of the areas – a Logan Canyon map. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  29  April  2009     Page  1   �[Speaking directly to Kathy] Why don’t you point out some of the areas that you were involved with. Bear Hodges, or --? KG: Well, first of all I’ll just go over our mission statement for the Citizens for the Protection of Logan Canyon [CPLC] It was to “protect the natural beauty and overall integrity of the canyon.” Now that the road was “fait accompli” in the sense that we’d had our input with the Utah Department of Transportation (UDOT), with road and bridge modifications and it had been built according to the guidelines in the Record of Decision we turned our attention to other issues. The road building took about 5 years beginning to end (19952000). And as we educated ourselves about the issues in Logan Canyon it was no longer the road having a huge impact, but how the lands were managed. And so the Forest Service was redoing the Forest Plan and there were issues that they had to address. And there were procedures, policies that they had to follow. And at the same time that they were redoing the Forest Plan, there was a mandate, I believe, at the federal level that the Forest Service had to do an Environmental Impact Statement (commonly known as an EIS) for every cattle allotment. And of course the Forest Service didn’t have the manpower to do this. And we felt that the first allotment that needed to be looked at (and we needed to look over the shoulder of the Forest Service) was the North Rich cattle allotment because it is one of the largest. It is 27,000 acres along the ridge of the Bear River Range and goes into the sinks of Cache and Rich Counties. And I have a letter here to our membership, dated April 24, 2000, which does a nice job of summarizing what the allotment was – still is – what action was being taken at that time by the U.S. Forest Service, and why this particular allotment was important. And it was important because it had a diversity of species and parts of it had been very much abused by land uses. So that was the beginning of our switch from the road to the land management issues. BM: So basically what you’re saying is that in order to protect the canyon and the kinds of values and aesthetics and conservation concerns with wildlife and water -- the group really formed with the road issue, but with the road issue moving into other areas, it was now becoming the adjacent land management and all that involved. So this was your first --. KG: Right. Yes, and the big impetus of course the Audubon people and there was quite a broad base in Cache Valley – was the increase in motorized traffic (both snowmobiling in the winter and all terrain vehicles in the summer). And they were making many, many inroads – non-legal roads, paths – that they traveled along (this was the summer traffic). And then of course with the winter traffic and these high-powered snowmobiles they were able to go up very steep slopes and that has an impact for the wildlife. In other words, when the snowmobiles pack down the surface of the high terrain, predators such as coyotes start to compete with the lynx. The lynx can travel in deep snow and so its food base is depleted if coyotes get access because of snowmobiles. And then there was also the issue of the Nordic skiers and their yurt in the high country. The skiers would tromp in, taking all day to get there, to stay in the yurt and the snowmobilers would have Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  29  April  2009     Page  2   �come in and trampled all the nice powder. So they wanted an area set aside for nonmotorized use. And the two people that you need to talk to about that are Bryan Dixon and Lou Reynolds – who were very active in the new Forest Service Plan in protecting that area for non-motorized traffic in the winter. And they actually had a lawsuit over the Forest Service arbitrarily changing the winter travel plan. They won the first time and then the snowmobilers went back to Rod Bishop, a congressman and had the decision reversed. BM: Now the cross-country ski people, was that Nordic United? KG: I think they formed that group. I’m not up on it. By this time I was out of the valley enough for extended periods of time that I couldn’t keep up with it. BM: I’ll check up on that. KG: And CPLC was essentially dissolved as far as, what you call NGO – Non-Governmental Organization. BM: Like a non-profit? KG: Non-profit, yes. BM: So dissolved as of 2002? KG: Actually just in ’06. We kept it registered with the state for several years, because it’s very expensive to start it up with all the paperwork, but. CPLC began under the auspices of Audubon which gave them, you know, non-profit status and access to the environmental community. They were very supportive and very good. BM: Is Audubon still involved with some of those issues? KG: I wouldn’t say so. BM: No? So between the time that you started under the auspices of Audubon and the organization was dissolved – in that time, the road issues, and then the adjacent land issues involving monitoring with group citizens – there were other people that were becoming involved and going out and helping the Forest Service actually keep track of some of those areas? KG: Well I’m going to be pretty definite here. We never wanted to “help” the Forest Service. We wanted the Forest Service to do their job. And John Carter did a lot of monitoring on his own because he realized that when he was out hiking in the forest – and he did a lot of it – he saw how degraded it was. And he took pictures, and he wrote them and he requested interventions to stop these destructive practices -- there’s a whole literature, a whole background that he can tell you about – he formed his own organization and then he joined with Western Watersheds eventually (which he’s still with). This is a huge Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  29  April  2009     Page  3   �issue in the West. It’s not unique to Logan Canyon, nor to the Forest Service; BLM lands have also got the same issues. BM: Um-hmm. KG: So no one man could do it. I think what happened with our group is as we worked more with the Forest Service and we got more involved and educated ourselves, we saw these land use issues that really none of us were aware of. BM: Um-hmm. KG: BM: So I know there were groups that started up in Cache Valley that were interested in monitoring these “illegal roads” and – it’s Dan Miller and his group (and I gave you that contact) – and he would tell you what they’ve done. And they may have had volunteers that went out and saw who was running around the forest on illegal roads – but it’s very, very difficult to manage. And the Forest Service had no staff to manage it. Right. KG: So. BM: Well and there are groups – there is a group that I am familiar with up in the Smithfield area – and it may be Dan Miller’s group – that is actually going out and they have been regularly photographing through photo points to monitor the changes. KG: Yes. We have monitored the forest to death. It has massive destruction – the Forest Service needs to do something about it. But the motorized recreation people are such a force that I don’t think – it’s the same as the issue in Yellowstone about snowmobilers going into the park. We have overwhelming support that the public doesn’t want motorized traffic in the park and they can always find a way to let in a certain number. It’s a huge lobby. So I don’t know what those groups are doing but we don’t need any more monitoring – we need action. BM: And the changes in the canyon, with some of the land sales, the land swaps – when land comes up for private availability, do you see that as an increase in more of the access --? KG: Well, I thought when I was involved with the land swap up there they were very interested in doing it right and protecting the riparian area and Dick Toth and his landscape architecture group drew up a wonderful plan for that area. And there are ways to mitigate – you have development, but you concentrate it and you listen to the experts that can tell you how to preserve the viewscape and how to preserve water quality, and you know? It can be done. It seems that monetary interests trump everything. BM: And the choices get made in that direction? KG: Well, you know, it’s political. It becomes political. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  29  April  2009     Page  4   �BM: Um-hmm. [Stop and start recording] BM: Alright, the tape is back on and we are talking a little bit about what the transition of some of these groups, how CPLC had a spin-off with LCC [Logan Canyon Coalition] or a change with LCC and I’d like you to explain that a little bit. KG: BM: Well, I am only going from my cut-outs from the newspaper [laughing]. And on the second page in the Bridgerland Section (which all local people will be familiar with) there’s a byline – April 15, 1999 – where it’s a story about Logan Canyon Coalition, or LCC, wanted to pursue further the designation of Logan River as “wild and scenic.” And I think the thinking was that by getting it designated “wild and scenic” it would then drive guidelines for any further roadwork. And this (oh, I have to look at this and read it because I don’t remember it). Anyway, my memory of what LCC did that I thought was really important, is they cut back on the size and just the look of the Visitors’ Center at the top (the Summit of Logan Canyon.) They downsized the building and made it more environmentally friendly. Okay, and when you say “the top” we’re talking about the top of Logan – KG: The summit – BM: The summit of Logan Canyon. [Overlooking Bear Lake.] KG: The summit of Logan Canyon where they’ve built a little visitors’ center and a washroom, and I think that was really important to have that – I don’t know that we needed a visitors’ center, per se, but it certainly is a beautiful view from up there. And they got things like solar panels so you wouldn’t have power lines. And that was an interest that certainly Gordon Steinhoff pursued. I am very vague on what other roadwork LCC wanted to have a say in. By this time the people that remained in CPLC were quite involved with the new Forest Plan. Informing our members and commenting on the Forest Plan was a full time job. BM: Um-hmm. KG: I have a few letters here that speak to that. BM: But here again is that continuation with LCC really wanting to focus on what they could look at with the forest issues and their interest staying a little bit closer to the road, and CPLC – as you mentioned – is starting look at the adjacent land – KG: Well I don’t remember LCC having anything to do with land management issues. Now I could easily stand corrected on that. BM: Okay. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  29  April  2009     Page  5   �KG: I’m sure they came to our meetings and supported us, but I don’t remember them formally as an organization doing that. BM: Okay. KG: But then I wasn’t really very close to it at that point. BM: Okay. KG: I think the road had been done. Essentially UDOT followed the Record of Decision, and there were lots of hearings about that in the early ‘90s. And then we monitored it to make sure that they did it (and Sean Swanner was absolutely critical to that). And I really hope that you’ll be able to follow up with him because he was just brilliant at it. He had a wonderful disposition; he didn’t get angry. Everybody liked him. He was your ultimate negotiator and kept his eye on the ball and didn’t get sidetracked by personalities or emotional issues. And I just thought he was wonderful. BM: And that’s a hard one because for the people I’ve spoken to with Logan Canyon it is an emotional issue. It’s a – KG: Well, it was such a blatant violation of it by this transportation corridor. There’s just no question. And so he was able to work very consistently– just took one step at a time. He could read the technical drawings, that’s what amazed me; and could talk to the engineers and they were receptive to him, so it was great. BM: Okay. [Stop and start recording] BM: Okay, we’re back on with the tape. KG: Alright, so Barbara has asked me if I would like to summarize something for CPLC. I guess – well I don’t guess – this is on a personal note: I think it’s very reinforcing to work on a local level with issues that are very important to you personally; in other words, preserving the value of Logan Canyon from the natural perspective. And I think you can learn so much, you can have great interactions with your neighbors, your friends, people that you meet in the community. And you never know that’s going to happen until you do it and you just have to get out front and do it! And find people who have the same interests as you – and there are always those people out there. And I think in the end, although it was a lot of time and effort for me and I got preoccupied and worried about whether we were doing it right – I took away a lot of information and I learned a lot. That’s about it. BM: Thank you Kathy. [Stop and start recording] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  29  April  2009     Page  6   �BM: Alright, we’re back on. KG: Okay. This part of the tape is really not related directly to CPLC. The people that I have met in the environmental movement in the west have typically been from the east. They are impressed with the amount of open public land. You can walk more than a mile and not run into a fence! When people see how public lands have been abused by vested interests, they want to change policy so these lands can be preserved; these lands are beautiful just as they are. They don’t need to be “used.” I think growing up in the 50’s gave us a sense of place. There was a line between the city and the country. Even though I grew up in a big city I could go to the country just 40 miles away; skiing in the winter, the lake in the summer. We drove on two lane highways to get there. The little village in the pictures is St. Sauveur, 20 years apart, painted by the same artist. We walked around that village, often in our ski boots – not easy! We walked to the ski hills and then walked home at night buying our bread at the bakery and our supper at the local grocery store. We rented a room in a local home and practiced our high school French with the madam of the house. On those lovely sparkling winter nights we went to the pub and drank beer. It’s changed now. They built malls on the edge of town and the little narrow streets are crowded with tourists in the summer and winter. The paintings are painted by Betty Galbraith-Cornell who painted the pictures about 20 years apart. The older one with the horse-drawn sled was a very common scene for me as a kid. That would be a way that people got around; lots and lots of snow. And in the later one is just the streets are plowed and it still had that ambience, but it’s even of course changed dramatically today where they’ve put shopping malls on the outskirts. But this was just a lovely, old French-Canadian town with little colored houses. And a lot of English people would have had cabins there, ski cabins, where we would walk. So that’s about it. But it was a wonderful, magical place because it was little. BM: A lot of time spent outdoors. KG: Yes, we spent, yes we did. We spent all day outdoors. And of course I think that’s the secret to winter, is that you get outside for the day! [Laughing] And that you’re dressed and not cold! BM: KG: Well, thank you. I don’t know if I said the same as last time, but I got the beer in there! BM: Did you say Betty Galbraith-Cornell? KG: Yes. I think they were. Yes. I’m trying to think – yes they were. It was actually a friend of my mother’s who knew this artist as a personal friend. BM: Thank you Kathy. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Katherine  Gilbert,  29  April  2009     Page  7   � Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Where else is this found? Give the URL for the item, if it is in another respository (like CONTENTdm) <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/LoganCanyon/id/104">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/LoganCanyon/id/104</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Hosted by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Conversion Specs Recording equipment: Radio Shack Cassette Recorder: CTR-122 Transcription equipment: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2012-01-11 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Katherine Gilbert interviews, 8 April 2008 & 29 April 2008, and transcriptions Description An account of the resource In her first interview Katherine Gilbert briefly talks about her childhood in Canada and fond memories of outdoor experiences in her youth. She discusses her college education and subsequent jobs and training, and then speaks about influences as an adult which inspired her to be proactive toward protecting the natural beauties surrounding her residence. She discusses the formation of the Citizens for the Protection of Logan Canyon [CPLC] and her role within the organization. She talks about the CPLC’s part in the planning of improvements and expansion of the highway and bridges in Logan Canyon. In the second interview Katherine Gilbert speaks about the direction the Citizens for the Protection of Logan Canyon [CPLC] took after the completion of the Logan Highway project getting involved in land use management issues. She also discusses the differences between the CPLC and the Logan Canyon Coalition [LCC]. She ends the interview with some memories of growing up in Montreal and skiing in the Laurentian Mountains. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gilbert, Katherine, 1942- Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Middleton, Barbara Subject The topic of the resource Citizens for the Protection of Logan Canyon Land use--Utah--Logan Canyon Beaver Mountain (Utah) Canyons--Utah--Cache County--Recreational use Queen's University (Kingston, Ont.)--Alumni and alumnae Montreal (Quebec) Laurentian Mountains (Quebec) Wind Caves (Logan Canyon, Utah) Right Hand Fork (Logan Canyon, Utah) Skis and skiing--Utah--Logan Canyon Roads--Widening--Utah--Logan Canyon--Citizen participation Roads--Environmental aspects--Utah--Logan Canyon Scenic byways--Utah--Logan Canyon United States. National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 United States. Forest Service Utah. Dept. of Transportation CH2M Hill, inc. Logan Canyon Coalition Bridgerland Audubon Society Swanner, Sean Grazing--Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho) Range Management--Utah--Logan Canyon Allotment of land--Utah--Logan Canyon Natural resources--Utah--Logan Canyon--Management Rangelands--Utah--Cache County Rangelands--Multiple use--Utah--Logan Canyon Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Oral histories Interviews Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Logan Canyon (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Montreal (Quebec) Laurentian Mountains (Quebec) Quebec Canada Wind Caves (Utah) Right Hand Fork (Utah) Logan (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1950-1959 1960-1969 1970-1979 1980-1989 1990-1999 20th century 2000-2009 21st century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections & Archives, Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection, FOLK COLL 42 Box 2 Fd. 8 & 9 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection can be found at: <a href="http://library.usu.edu/folklo/folkarchive/FolkColl42.php">http://library.usu.edu/folklo/folkarchive/FolkColl42.php</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Fife Folklore Archives Curator, phone (435) 797-3493 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FolkColl42bx2fd8KatherineGilbert Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 8 April 2008 29 April 2008 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2008-04-08 2008-04-29 Is Version Of A related resource of which the described resource is a version, edition, or adaptation. Changes in version imply substantive changes in content rather than differences in format. Logan Canyon Reflections https://highway89.org/files/original/6ecd1a5239f78841f0e972568bea2206.mp3 4ac23eb454cb20494fd3826dcac56b25 https://highway89.org/files/original/bf96d46ed29a408de96e43cb3f0580b0.pdf 25ba4986f127c99e294c9cd2e1ae1ed1 PDF Text Text LAND USE MANAGEMENT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: John Neuhold and Ron Goede Place of Interview: John Neuhold’s home, Logan, Utah Date of Interview: Sunday, 22 February 2009; 9 a.m. Interviewer: Recordist: Barbara Middleton Barbara Middleton Recording Equipment: Radio Shack, CTR-122 Transcription Equipment used: Transcribed by: Transcript Proofed by: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems Susan Gross Barbara Middleton; Randy Williams (July 2011); reviewed by John Neuhold (July 2011) Brief Description of Contents: John Neuhold and Ron Goede discuss their experiences at USU Summer Camp (and the skills and camaraderie they gained there) and other experiences in their education, including those with the GI Bill; the Mossback group; and the politics of land use management. Reference: BM = Barbara Middleton (Interviewer; Interpretive Specialist, Environment & Society Dept., USU College of Natural Resources) JN = John Neuhold RG = Ron Goede NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [Tape 1 of 2: A] BM: I’m going to mark the tape here so we know what we’re doing. We’re at John Neuhold’s house here on Island Drive and it is Sunday, February 22, 2009. We’re here with John Neuhold and also Ron Goede. The purpose of our talk this morning is to discuss a little bit about some of their memories of Forestry Camp (Field Camp, Summer Camp; it goes by a lot of different names) with Utah State University. Let’s start off with John – your arrival at Field Camp and some of your first memories of that. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  1   �JN: My arrival at the Utah State Agricultural College School of Forest, Range and Wildlife Management Forestry Camp was in June 15, 1950. We had a huge group; well over 100 undergraduate students were participating in the summer camp. Most of them were World War II veterans (like me). It was really an interesting group. The camp itself was composed of a central building (which was basically the mess hall and the primary meeting room); the second permanent building involved some dormitory space, but was mostly occupied by the instructors (the professors in the program). The next two building were World War II Quonset huts that housed the balance of us in double-decker bunks. When I got there on the 16th of June we had a lot of cold weather still; there was snow on the ground. The classes started (I don’t remember exactly what day the 16th was – I think it was a Friday), but the classes started the following Monday, at any rate. The group was big enough that it was divided up into three sub-groups, and each sub-group went into a specific specialty headed by one of the professors. The professors that were involved at that time were Dr. Ted Daniels, Ray Moore (who was at that time still had not had his doctorate, but after World War II he became a professor here), Bill Sigler (who headed the wildlife program), George Kilker was also involved in that as part of the wildlife program, Bill Heldy did the aquatic stuff and George did the terrestrial wildlife stuff. Art Smith was involved, and he was in the area of range management. Wayne Cook was also involved, he was range management. That I think was basically the basic faculty group that handled the program. BM: And Ted Daniels would’ve been in Forestry? JN: Ted was Forestry, so was Ray Moore. BM: Okay. RG: Was Art Smith working for Fish and Game? JN: Well he had a joint appointment. RG: Like Phil Urness. JN: Like Phil Urness, yeah. His salary was paid by Fish and Game, but he held tenure as a professor at the university. BM: So was that a cooperative appointment? JN: Um-hmm. RG: Do they still have that John? JN: Yeah they do. RG: I don’t even know who it is anymore. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  2   �JN: No, I don’t remember who it is either now. BM: And that was Art Smith that had that? JN: That was Art Smith that had it, yeah. He was followed by Phil Urness. Then when Phil died – I don’t know who took over – RG: Charlie Jensen was in there for a while. BM: Now you mentioned a connection with World War II – these folks coming out of the war (you said that specifically for Ray). Was that typical for any of these other folks that you mentioned? JN: Well let’s see. Bill Sigler was a lieutenant (kept two bars) on the sub-chaser during World War II and then was assigned later on to the formation of the United Nations in San Francisco. Ted Daniels was not in the military, but Ted (before he joined the faculty here and graduated from Berkley) he ran ferry boats in San Francisco Bay. He was a captain on one of the ferry boats there. Ray Moore, Wayne Cook both were in the military – I don’t recall exactly what branch of the service they were in. Art Smith was a captain in the Army; George Kilker was not in the military he was a “4 Fer.” I think that pretty well did all of it. Most of them were returned veterans though – most of the students. So you know it was – RG: Everybody was a veteran. JN: Yeah, it was a brotherhood actually, when you get right down to it. It was a very informal relationship between student and professor. It was really a lot of fun. BM: Now you said, “a 4Fer.” What is that? JN: A “4 Fer” – you were excused from the military for physical reasons. BM: Okay. RG: One A was the top – you were most vulnerable if you were classified as “1A” and all the way to a “4F” that was exempt. BM: So it was a range. That’s kind of interesting because is this where the GI Bill comes into play? JN: Oh yeah. Virtually all of the students were supported by the GI Bill. That was one of the – I wish to heck we would have something like this going again. It really stimulated our economy – this is what made our economy bloom like it did. Getting a lot of the people an education that they would never have had the chance to get before. Then they managed to go on through and become professionals in a lot of the resource management agencies. For a long time throughout the [19]‘50s and into the ‘60s (if not throughout the Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  3   �entire ‘60s up to the ‘70s), Utah State University was the prime source of personnel for the federal land management agencies; and a lot of the state agencies. The class that I was in, for example (in that summer camp), we had [counting to himself] three people that became directors of Fish and Game departments in states around the country. At least three: Bud Phelps – RG: Harold Wilson. JN: Harold was later on, he wasn’t in that particular class. RG: No, not in that class. JN: Don Smith, Jack Hammond – he became director of Ohio and then later on of New Hampshire I think. Anyhow, there were a bunch like that for the state organizations. RG: Was Tom Trelease part of that? JN: He became Chief of Fisheries in Nevada. Don Andriano  became Chief of Fisheries here in Utah. You know, the people in that particular class (they’re all retired or dead now), they all got into leadership positions. BM: Now they’re going to places that are outside of Utah – JN: Oh yeah! BM: Were they also coming from outside of Utah? JN: Oh yeah, yes I’ll say! There were very few Utahans in that group, actually. BM: Hmmm. RG: Yeah, natural resources in general were primarily non-resident. BM: So what was the pull for Utah State and who were the other competitors at the time? JN: The other competitors at the time: Michigan State University – RG: Montana was pretty – JN: Montana was; Oregon State. In the fisheries area, University of Washington – they were mostly marine fisheries. RG: Missouri had one too. JN: Missouri did, yeah, but it didn’t produce as much as some of the others. Oh, Penn State! That was one of the major – Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  4   �RG: That’s where – JN: Yeah, that’s your organization, yup. BM: That’s kind of interesting to me that there’s a much smaller range of universities to choose from at that time. JN: Oh yeah! BM: And Utah State is getting such a national presence, as well as a national student body. RG: It was known – I got guys to come to Utah State from – Mel Stein who was the director of the Nebraska Fish and Game – when I decided I wanted to do it I wanted to talk to him and went to his office and talked to him about if he had ideas where I might go. BM: So what was going on here? Were people just so well known? Were the issues that were being looked at Utah State so critical in terms of the whole national picture? Why such a presence? RG: I think it had to do with the people that started these programs. JN: Yeah actually there was a big transition from a political system to these various positions as Game Wardens (for example), and as Foresters. Well you had to meet certain criterion to get into the Forest Service which meant you had to have a bachelor’s degree in Forestry. RG: In Utah; well in a lot of those states also got out of the patronage system and it went to like here, you had to be a professional to be director. JN: That came later on, actually. RG: It still was a political appointment, but they had to appoint it to a professional. JN: Yeah, that was changed under the Leavitt administration. RG: That was when [Joe] Valentine became director [Utah Wildlife Resources]; I think he was the first one that was not a professional. BM: What was the nature of these people in terms of this “patronage” idea? These were the people that lived in the area, knew the landscape and just slipped into these positions? JN: Basically that’s what it was. BM: But good land experience? JN: Not necessarily. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  5   �RG: Not necessarily. JN: Depended upon how high up you were in the political party. RG: I think they did that right at the time, that’s how they got Joe Valentine in there. JN: Yeah. RG: They actually had to change the law. JN: They had to change the law – RG: [inaudible] would be director. JN: That was the Leavitt administration that did that. And Ron was responsible for getting Leavitt all hot and bothered about it. [Laughing] RG: I brought levity into the whole thing. BM: Well you know, that must be interesting though for that transition because you have people put in place that may or may not have the experience, and then you guys are coming out of – you and a bunch of others – are coming out of these programs with professional training, exposure, and what sounds like a lot of field experience. What was that transition like? JN: It was interesting. Bill McConnell and I were the first two professionally trained Fishery Biologists in the Division of Wildlife Resources. We started a program that basically took hold. Harold Crane became the director while I was working for the Division, and up until then it was Perry Egan was the director. He was a banker and he turned out to be a very good leader. He was all for getting professional things started in the Division of Wildlife Resources (or the Fish and Game Department as it was known at that time). RG: But they had to hire good people in order [inaudible]. You can be a good leader but they’ve got to surround themselves with good people. BM: Right. JN: And that was one of his strengths; he was really a neat guy and I really enjoyed working for him. RG: J Perry Egan Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  6   �JN: J Perry Egan – or as his wife referred to it, she was not one of the Irish Eagan. She had a French background and she pronounced her name as E-gan! [Laughing] And she insisted upon that, “Egan!” RG: The Eagan Hatchery is named after J Perry Eagan. BM: And where is that? RG: Bicknell. BM: Bicknell? JN: Bicknell. RG: There’s another Egan up here in Richmond that built one of these barns. That was one of the body guards of Brigham Young. So there’s quite a history there. I don’t think Perry was tied up with that group of Egans. Do you think he was? JN: He probably was, yeah. Anyhow, it was a period of transition. Working in that system, you know most of the people that we worked with they have only two professionally trained fishery biologists: Dale Jones, Jay Udy and Bud Phelps – they all came on but they were on the terrestrial side. The transition was interesting because all of our fieldwork – we had to interact with these patronage type people holding down regional and district game warden jobs and that sort of thing. It became pretty chancy at times because they were very jealous of their prerogatives and they didn’t want these college kids telling them what to do, you know and so on. So we had to exercise a lot of tact to get through it. We won most of them over actually, when you get right down to it. BM: Do you remember any particular experience with that transition that was interesting? JN: Oh yeah. See, one of the programs that I initiated and was leading was doing the lake and stream survey up in the Uinta Mountains. And we had a CO up there (Guy Bronson, was that his name, Bronson?) – RG: Yeah. JN: Man! I’ll tell you – if we didn’t inform him that we were going to be in the area, he’d go down to the director and complain. We had that kind of stuff coming up from all kinds of directions. We never did swing him over. RG: His son was better. JN: His son was better, yeah. RG: Quite an artist. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  7   �JN: Oh yeah, that’s right. He did a lot of the area – RG: A great wildlife artist – Clark Bronson. BM: Say the name again? RG: Clark. BM: Clark? RG: Clark Bronson. He was Guy Bronson’s son. JN: But you know, we had other guys in the organization like Bit Clark (who became, actually, regional director), Jess Wynn – RG: Jack Rensel. JN: Well Jack came on actually after I did. RG: Jack was the first actual regional director. JN: He was the first regional director. RG: He’s the one I suggested you might want to talk to. JN: Yeah, as a matter of fact I talked to him yesterday and told him he’d be expecting a call from you, so. He would be a really good one to talk to. RG: Jack’s a first-class guy, I really like him. BM: Did any of these people come to field camp? Were they part of the experience at all to meet any of these agency people? JN: No. BM: No. JN: No. BM: So it was strictly professors at that time? JN: Strictly professors. RG: There was another dimension here though, as far as the existence of the field camp, they did use the field camp quite often. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  8   �BM: Who’s “they”? RG: People like the regions and the DWR would have – JN: But that was substantially later. RG: Yeah, I know, but they used the camp. JN: Yeah, they used the camp. RG: That’s why I said there was more than just school. The camp served for the in-service training and that sort of thing. I don’t know what they paid for that, but they used it because you could stay there; they could be billeted right there, you know. BM: I wonder if there was more of a transition later on as that transition eased over time? JN: Yeah, there actually was because when J Perry Eagan retired (or he died, actually, on the job), Harold Crane took over. Harold Crane had a Master’s Degree – a degree from the University of Utah in Mammalogy. He was really a top notch leader. He had a tendency to get drunk too often! [Laughing] RG: Yeah, he was [inaudible]. He was director when I hired on. JN: Yeah. He insisted that anybody that was hired by the Division had to have a Bachelor’s degree, at least. The only area there was an exception to was in the hatcheries. RG: And some of the law enforcement. JN: And some of the law enforcement, yeah. BM: Why hatcheries? JN: Well because it was slop jobs. RG: A lot of that was just labor. BM: So more “tech” kinds of things? RG: Actually, I was the one that started training the hatchery people; so now they have to be trained and they have to take tests. JN: Well actually after Ron took over, most of the hatchery people that ended up being hired had degrees. Those that didn’t he ended up training. BM: And when is that transition? What’s the timeline there? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  9   �JN: Oh, it took a long time. My experience started in the [19]‘50s and Ron came on in the early ‘70s (wasn’t it?). RG: ’66 is when I took – JN: Oh, ’66. RG: I first came here to school in ’57. But I came back here from Missouri and started to work in ’66. That’s when I started taking over that part and driving it up to get the professional. BM: How long did that transition take – from ’67 when you started – until they started to really look at hatchery people needing Bachelor’s degrees. JN: Well right away actually. RG: Yeah, they started looking at it right away. They started the assistant’s job at my place (like the one job Doug Routledge has now), they would put up the work for me just for a short while and they would be trained while they worked for me. Then I started developing the two-week intensive training for all of them. So I ended up teaching everybody that worked for the state. Now when they apply for the job, they are tested for that body of knowledge. They have to know how to do those basic things. JN: But it was actually until well into the ‘70s that we finally had that all taken care of. So you know it was a long transition period. A lot of the patronage appointments they went out by way of attrition; they simply retired. And when they retired they were replaced with the appropriately educated people. RG: Actually when that started working best for me was when Bill Gear became chief when Don Adriano retired. JN: Yeah. RG: Because that’s when I told him that I felt that hatcheries needed to be straight line, and not my staff. They had people supervising the hatcheries that didn’t know anything about hatcheries. So I wanted them to answer to Salt Lake and the chief of hatcheries, not to the regional supervisors. I think about the only place in the state in that organization where it is such a straight line. JN: That’s right, it is the only place they have a straight line. RG: I told them you’ve got to have them working for professional hatchery people who understand what the problems are. JN: It’s really a lot different. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  10   �BM: So just staying on this idea of transitions, before we go out to field camp, it’s a long time that you both have worked in the industry, as well as the years you’ve had in retirement to look back and watch the changes. Is there another transitional period that the agency is going through in terms of the kinds of people or the kinds of training that newer people have coming in? What’s the difference? JN: I think that’s right, first of all the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources is dominated by USU graduates. But that slowly has been changing and you find more BYU graduates in the organization now than you ever did before. And actually the University of Utah doesn’t have that many people in it. RG: Most of the people I find they hired were all from out of state. JN: A lot of out-of-staters, yeah. BM: So why did BYU dominate? JN: Who knows? They kind of fancy themselves as a natural resource organization down there, which they were not. RG: But I think also that USU (and this is strictly my opinion – John may agree with it, but he probably won’t). [Laughing] JN: That’s right! RG: The University up here started to get away from the idea of management of the resource. I don’t think they learn the management principles anymore. JN: Well, I agree with that. RG: And so they’re looking elsewhere, people who do have those management principles. BM: Tell me more about that. RG: Well we used to have a course, for instance, Principles of Wildlife Management, Principles of Fisheries Management, and so on. They teach how to actually go out and manage the resource: the tools that you need. That doesn’t seem to be there anymore. You’ve got ideas of Fisheries Biology you know, and some of them have some pretty good training in fisheries biology, but they’re not taught how to go out and manage the resource. JN: No, that’s right. And actually (of course I was involved in teaching a lot of that stuff, management parts of it), you get right down to the nitty-gritty of what those field biologists do, for example, when they go out in the field. There is a PR part to that: Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  11   �you’re dealing with wild populations that you’re manipulating one way or another and you have to get that kind of information too. In the fisheries area, we used to teach courses in getting information on fisherman usage, which meant core census work. That required a lot of statistical input. We trained a lot of our students with good statistical backgrounds (and this was also true in the terrestrial part of it). But you don’t get any of that anymore. You get a basic understanding of statistics, but not the application of it. RG: No. Now they have a computer program to do it for them anyway. JN: Yeah. Right. Well we used to have three departments: Department of Range Management, Department of Forest Management, and Department of Wildlife Management. The management was basically the application of ecological principles. And that’s one of the reasons that we became so strong in ecology – actually I became the first director of the Ecology Center. RG: That was one of the chief conservations that you got at the summer camp. JN: At the summer camp, right; exactly. One of the interesting things about the summer camp was when Ted Daniels – one of the instructions that we got from Ted was when you get out into the forest, stop and listen to the trees. And he really was serious about this. So we used to sing (how did that go?) – RG: [Singing] “I talk to the trees” – JN: [Singing] “I talk to the trees, but they won’t listen to me.” [Laughing] [Dog barking] BM: Your dog’s enjoying that too! JN: Yeah, I bet! RG: I think that’s what she’s saying! [Laughing] JN: One of the things that we got up at summer camp in the forestry area – and actually I went to work for Ted after summer camp – and that was setting out growth plots in the forest and measuring the growth of trees and this sort of thing. When I was back at the University of Wisconsin, my mentor back there was Phil Woodford who was a plant ecologist and he was doing studies on growth in deciduous forests. I went to work for him and one of the things that did me good, that made a lot of points with Ted, was the fact that I could identify trees in the wintertime! [Laughing] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  12   �JN: Hardwood trees. BM: Right, right; with few clues. JN: With few clues, yeah. BM: So with summer camp, what’s the male-female ratio of your students? JN: Well, it was almost no females at all. All male at that time, yeah. RG: That would be different now. JN: It’s quite a bit different now – 50%. RG: That was something they just weren’t part of it. BM: They weren’t allowed? RG: No, they just – JN: No, they weren’t interested. RG: They would’ve been allowed; they just weren’t interested. I don’t ever remember one, in fact. They just basically weren’t that interested in the fundamentals of wildlife and resource management. BM: Right. RG: Now, they’re probably a very important part of it. I don’t know why that is. I don’t know why that transition happened, but we’ve got some really good people out there now and a lot of the leaders are. BM: Do you remember when that transition did happen, that women were allowed into -- ? JN: Oh, that didn’t occur until the ‘70s. BM: Okay. JN: That we first started getting a few of our women coming in. And they were mostly in the graduate area at that time. RG: Yeah. Well, there were some practical things there too. If it was just one or two women it would have been hard to deal with them up there because it was the barracks. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  13   �JN: When it finally did happen, they did segregate – the women were in the house that used to be the faculty. They housed them there, separate from the men. But that didn’t occur until the ‘70s. And then mostly it was mostly graduate students at that time. RG: I saw it as a non-problem. There were some things they had to take care of to make it work for both, you know, but it wasn’t a problem. BM: Sure, um-hmm. Was there any resistance in the transition? RG: Not that I know of. John might. [End Tape 1: A; begin Tape 1: B] BM: John Neuhold and Ron Goede on summer camp. JN: We didn’t actively go out to recruit women into the program; it was mostly volunteers as the women came in. And actually the motivation for women to get into the field was really somewhat different than for men. RG: It wasn’t hunting and fishing. JN: Yeah, the men were hunters and fisherman, the women were aesthetics – you know, they were in for the aesthetic part. RG: The environmental activists. JN: Yeah, they were, yeah. That was the difference. That’s what you’ll find right now, I think predominately, is that the women in the organization as undergraduates are attracted to it because (we used to say because of the fuzzy bunnies) – RG: Yeah, that’s why they don’t go into fish, because they’re not fuzzy and grow feet. [Laughing] JN: Yeah, not very many of them went into the fisheries – they’re too slimy. BM: Okay, so give us an idea of what it was like in a day at field camp. JN: It was really interesting. You know, I recall some really interesting things about that. We get up in the morning (just like in the military), there were barracks (just like in the military); the first thing was to go into the mess hall and have our breakfast. And our cook at that time was an interesting guy. It was a man that was suffering from Parkinson’s. He was a very good cook, but he was suffering from Parkinson’s. And to watch him prepare food – well, first of all to watch him go into the cook shed and open the place up – it was always padlocked at night (you couldn’t get in there at night) – he’d Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  14   �come along and he would be shaking like that, like crazy, and he’d bang! hit the thing every dang time! He never missed. [Laughing] JN: And then you watch him slicing onions – he’d hold an onion in his hand and bonk, bonk, bonk. He never cut himself! BM: It almost sounds like a Monty Python routine! JN: [Laughing] Yeah, it was! He was an excellent cook; we always had really good meals. And then after breakfast we (as I pointed out earlier) we are divided up into three separate groups and each group went to specific activities for that particular period of time (usually a week). Let’s see, summer camp lasted two months. It didn’t finish up until toward the end of August. Everybody had training in Forest Management, Range Management and in Science [Fisheries] Management. And you progressed on through the different groups every two-week period, or something like that. BM: So like a module you had to go through? JN: It was a module, yeah right. BM: Now wait – you said, “Forest Management, Range Management and Science”? JN: Fisheries Management. BM: Fisheries Management, okay. RG: You know one part that people don’t think about is that two months – for the average student – that’s when you made the money to go to school the rest of the year! BM: Right. RG: So you know, that’s where it really helped to have the GI Bill. JN: Yeah. RG: That’s what they were getting the money for, they could go do that. But once you’ve got away from a lot of the GIs it wasn’t so easy for students to deal with that. BM: Right. That’s a great point because you’re financially set with the GI Bill and you don’t have the pressure of the summer work. Let me ask one more question before this. You went to summer camp once in your entire career as a student? Or did you go to summer camp every summer? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  15   �JN: No, just once. BM: Just once, okay. So then other summers you picked up jobs? JN: Oh yeah. RG: Yeah. BM: So what would be an example of where some of the students would go? JN: Oh, you’d find jobs in the research area. I found a job, for example, in my second year in the Forest Service – I worked on the Fish Lake National Forest as a “Recreation Assistant” which meant that I had a pick honey buckets out of outhouses. I met one of my girlfriends doing that! As she was sitting on the pot! [Laughing] RG: Them were the good old days! “Excuse me!” BM: Oh boy. JN: The experiences we had up at summer camp were really quite interesting. For example, in Forestry you’d be put through a course in field surveying (and that was mostly compass and chain type work). BM: And this is a forestry chain – JN: Yeah, it was a metal chain and compass, plane table work, all that kind of stuff. You went into the kind of rough field surveying that foresters were practicing at that time. BM: So that would be like a crew? JN: Yeah, we’d go out and we’d line up into work crews. Every crew was responsible for creating a report – RG: Measuring the DBHs and so on. JN: Well, that was yeah, when you get out in the forest and do the growth plots, that was all part of that. RG: Do you know what DBH is? BM: Can you tell our audience what that is for those people that don’t know? JN: Diameter at breast high on trees. (Four and one half feet above the ground) The responsibility there was to calculate the board feet that was available for lumber. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  16   �BM: So you not only got the diameter, you also had to get the – JN: The height, yeah. BM: Okay. And how did you do the height at that time? JN: It was basically using an Abney – BM: Okay. JN: Abney level. BM: Yup. When did clinometers come in? It must have been later on. JN: Yeah, we didn’t have them there. BM: Okay. JN: It was all hand work. BM: Okay. JN: In the Range Sciences area – our main job there was we would go out and measure – well first of all identify all the various plants that you’re dealing with like the herbs and grasses (you concentrate a lot on grasses and herbs; forest type material for livestock and wildlife). You’d also do plots measuring; learn how to do plots. You’d do something similar to what you’d do in forestry, but basically it would be much smaller plots, identify the herbage in that particular area and come up with a measure of usage, for example. You’d measure such things as pellet counts, deer, this sort of thing. BM: Was it also the amount of vegetation as far as – JN: Yep; the amount of vegetation. You learn all that kind of stuff. And then in the fisheries area, that was basically going out and collecting fish with various different collecting equipment: seines, electro-shocking. BM: Okay, wait. Tell us how a seine works for those people that are listening that may not -- JN: Well a seine is a big net that you have two people – RG: A guy on each end. JN: A guy on each end and you just simply drag it through the water. Then when you get to an area where you could beach it, you’d come up and you’d count the species of the fishes that you had caught. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  17   �RG: If that was in a stream that wasn’t always – JN: Actually we did a lot of that work. We’d go over to the Bear Lake Bird Refuge and work on that. But in the streams in the Logan River, for example, or Temple Fork we used electric shocking. BM: Okay. RG: I think USU was one of the pioneers in that too. JN: Yeah, we were. BM: Oh really? JN: Yeah, electro-shocking. BM: Could you just tell us how you do that? I’ve seen it, but I’m not that familiar with it. JN: The science of electric shocking has really developed a long way. At that time we were using mostly the red current DC shockers. We had a DC generator – great big long cord that you had two electrodes on (a negative electrode and a positive electrode), and you’d put those in the stream and the fish that were caught in between them would get shocked and they’d come to the surface and you’d scoop them up with a net, put them in a bucket and then you could count them and measure them and do all that sort of stuff. RG: And then put them back. BM: Then how do you not get shocked? RG: You do if you’re not careful! Of course you’re in boots. JN: Oh, I’ll tell you. We used to get the guys on that. RG: Yeah! JN: We had metal buckets. And you’d carry out – if both metal buckets touched the water while you were in the field [laughing], you’d actually get sparks between the fillings in your teeth! RG: You could even see it happening, “Watch this!” [Laughing] RG: Some of those shockers we were using surplus from the government from old auxiliary power units! Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  18   �JN: Yeah, one we had was a big old – RG: It would vaporize the room! JN: It was an old man shocker, huge, heavy thing. You couldn’t carry it; it had to be in the back of a pickup truck. You had a great big old wheel (a tenth of a mile of cable, it was a great big, heavy cable like that you know, that you’d carry around). It was a lot of hard work! RG: But now they’ve got it figured out, the conductivity in the water, and you can really fine tune; you can also kill them (whip them around so fast that it breaks their back). And then if you’re using the direct current, the fish will come to the positive electrode, so you can pretty well figure where they’re going to go. In the alternating current they don’t do that. BM: What is the amount of shock based on? Do you have to look at the cubic volume of the water to know how much power to use? JN: Conductivity and the size of the fish, actually. The amount of shock of the animal given depended on its length: the bigger it is the more shock that it gets. RG: The littler ones are harder to shock. JN: And of course, if you were carrying two buckets and you put them – the amount of shock you got was determined between the distance between those two buckets – which meant that it was getting a hell of a lot more than the fish were getting. RG: Yeah. BM: It sounds like there is a bit of a rite of passage here with the fisheries. JN: It was, yeah! It really was. You learned a lot. RG: Well, you could even use that a lot of times if people were upset; the public was upset about – they’d say “There’s not enough fish in the Logan River, you guys got to put more in….” You would invite them out to watch you shock and they would see then the fish just boiling out of there, you know. And that’s all you would need and they would understand, the fish are out there they just aren’t catching them. BM: That’s a great visual. Now were you also looking at the invertebrate population, in terms of fish? JN: Oh yeah! Yeah, that was the other thing. We would have invertebrate collecting devices that you’d put out in the stream or in a lake. We had the Kemmerer Samplers that you’d – RG: Water sampler. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  19   �JN: Water samplers. BM: Now what is that? JN: It’s a water sampler that you could sample water at different depths. And then you’d put them through a (at that time we had what we referred to as the “Hatch chemical kit”) – RG: They still use them. JN: Still use them. BM: H-A-T-C-H isn’t it? Hatch kit. RG: Yeah. JN: We’d measure hardness or acidity, total dissolve solids. You know, all of these sorts of things. BM: A lot of chemical analysis of the water? JN: Right. Then we had the Peterson bridge – you’d scoop up a part of the bottom and bring it up to the surface and stick it through screens, and then measure the invertebrates that you picked up (mostly midge larvae). RG: The Kemmerer water bottle he’s talking about is interesting to go to Bear Lake, you can drop it down to a given depth and send the brass messenger down and it trips it and you can take a core at that point. And then you can take it up and analyze the water chemistry from that depth. BM: So it stays sealed all the way down until you are at your depth that you want to take a sample from? RG: Yeah. BM: And then you trigger to open it, catches that – RG: Yeah, that trigger opens it and then you start pulling up and it closes it down. BM: Okay. RG: There’s a lot of those on the bottom of the lake! [Laughing, and some inaudible comments] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  20   �RG: Yeah, that’s when you realize you have to put a knot on this end so the brass messenger goes out this way. It’s really funny when you’ll hear something go “boop” and then you’re, “uh-oh.” [Laughing] JN: Then the other thing that we sampled were the invertebrates in streams. And that was basically using nets (stream nets); you’d kick up the bottom and then measure the mayflies and the caddis flies, stoneflies and this sort of thing; midges. RG: And so you’d get a square you’d put a thing like a square, then you’d kick it up and gather what’s ever there so you could tell how much there is per square foot. BM: So somebody must be kicking upstream – RG: Yeah, or a lot of times you can just put – in a stream it’s easier because you can put it out there like that and just kick. BM: Right and it moves it right into your net then. Okay. JN: Yeah. RG: Yeah. JN: Those were all part of the mechanics of operating in the field that we were teaching then. This sort of thing is not being taught anymore. BM: Um-hmm. RG: Bill Sigler – the term I remember him using is that it teaches you, you have a “bag of tricks” that at least makes you look like you know what you’re doing. [Laughing] RG: Because a lot of times, those techniques are fine-tuned when you go to work for an agency or you find out what they’re using and you get more advice, you know. But if you go out there not knowing anything – actually it was the electro-shocking that got me the job in Missouri. I knew a lot about it because we did so much of it. JN: We did so much of it here, yeah. RG: I had my arms strained out like this several times! [Laughing] BM: So you went back there and then introduced them to that technology, as a student? RG: They had some technology for it, but they really didn’t understand much about it and so I introduced them. When I went to Leetown they had equipment that they didn’t know how Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  21   �to use, for collecting parasites, you know. They had an electric seine there and I set that whole thing up so they could collect fish to do the parasites studies. BM: It sounds tremendously hands-on as far as the kinds of tools and techniques and “bag of tricks” (as Bill Sigler referred to it). RG: Yeah. Those are we’d go set nets at Hyrum or something or the old Pelican pond out here. And you did learn your basic trade that way. JN: Yeah, that was one of the other collecting devices in fisheries that we had was the gill nets. RG: Yeah. JN: We used a lot of gill nets and – RG: Everybody hated them though. BM: Because? RG: They’re a lot of work. JN: They’re a lot of work. RG: Especially if you get any of the yellow perch or something like that. JN: Get any yellow perch or bullheads, or catfish. BM: Tell us why they were a lot of work. JN: Because of the spines. RG: Spines, and those ctenoid scales. Once they get into the net they’re awful to get out. You have to pick those nets and there’s also lots of them. You might have 1,000 fish there, you know, that you just picked up in a net. And you’ve got to take every one of those out and they don’t come out easy because of the spines get tangled up in the net. BM: Hmm. RG: I remember the guys in Schofield, not Schofield, Strawberry doing all that work at Strawberry they found one of the chubs that they were working on. Bud Phelps said, “Best way to pick the net is to lay it out in the road and drive over it in the truck a few times and then shake them off.” [Laughing] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  22   �JN: Yeah. That works. BM: So you have these modules that each of the groups is rotating through so they get experience in all the disciplines. JN: Yeah, all around. BM: At the end of one module then, are you putting that together in terms of looking at the health of the fisheries? Are you looking at the data and making assumptions on what we’re finding? JN: Yeah. Usually you’d have to write a paper – everybody had to write a paper on what you’d learned in that particular module. RG: Yeah. And then you’d do things like age and growth, you know and measure the annual line in the scales and measure that and project that to the length. JN: One of the other techniques that we used in fisheries that we were introduced there was using rotenone to sample (actually it was sampling), but actually we became pretty knowledgeable about using it to reclaim lake populations. RG: We did that for a little while with toxifine too. JN: We toxifine, yeah -- toxifine lasted too long in alkaline waters and they couldn’t really rehabilitate the waters. BM: Okay. Help me understand the application of rotenone: how you prepare it and how you apply it. JN: Rotenone, you know, is a powder made from Derris root, Amazon basin. RG: They use it a lot to spray in gardens and stuff. BM: Right. JN: We used to use the powder rope – we’d get big sacks of it and then it wasn’t very easily emulsified, so you’d have to mix it up in water and then spread it out, usually with a hose of some kind. RG: It was dangerous for the user. JN: It was really dangerous for the user. Later on they came up with an emulsifiable form of it. And we did some of the first big reclamation projects in the United States here what we learned. Bill McConnell and I did that. What we learned in school, using rotenone. Navajo Lake and Panguitch Lake were two of the first ones. Diamond Lake in Oregon was one of the first ones that was built, and I think we were the second and third one. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  23   �RG: And then we did it at Strawberry and that was – JN: Oh, that was the biggest one. RG: That was the biggest one ever. That was a million and a half pounds of rotenone. BM: And so you are putting this as a liquid into the water, or spraying a powder? You’re putting it as a liquid? RG: Well, it depends. You can get it as a liquid. They started using it; they developed a method for us to use in Strawberry, we did. Using the rotenone; you’re sucking the powder up into and then it’s mixing and you can spray it. And then you would do it when the lake is stratified too. The limnology was important: understanding stratification, you know, so you wouldn’t have to treat the whole reservoir, you could treat the part where the fish were. BM: Sure, that makes sense. RG: Take advantage of some kind of knowledge of that lake and the chemistry involved in those strata. And that was a million and a half – we had people come from all over the world (most of them were from around the country; Michigan sent several people to work through the whole project because they wanted to see it done). BM: So what happens to that rotenone then? It goes into the water column – JN: It disperses pretty well, actually. RG: And you can detox it with potassium permanganate. JN: Yeah, you can detox it. The way it works on the animal is it constricts the blood vessels in the gills and they suffocate. As a matter of fact, it also does that to humans. If you get it into the eyes, for example, it will constrict the blood supply to the eyes and you become temporarily blind. RG: When they did that up Strawberry on Schofield then, almost all the crews were blinded. And they didn’t know that then and all at once, nobody could see, you know. They ended up setting up a field station and they had to give them all cortisone shots. JN: Cortisone shots, yeah. RG: To help. But it scared the hell out of all of them. BM: Oh, I bet. RG: Then I took that when we did the big million and half pounds at Strawberry, I told them “You guys at Schofield – that was an afternoon – we’re talking about two weeks out there Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  24   �on Strawberry.” And I said, “The people are not going to be able to do that.” And so I said, “I would insist that they take care of the personnel, too.” And so they spent $100,000 on the protection for the personnel. BM: So what kind of protection did they have? RG: Gas masks and breathing devices, you know. And organizing so that people were only out there a short time, you know. So I was in charge of that whole safety program for that whole thing. JN: The first time that happened to me was down in Panguitch Lake. I had a student from the University of Utah that was on my crew and he got blinded. His name was Robert E. Lee, incidentally! He actually became a colonel in the Air Force. He was an interesting guy. You know the fish that we killed, they were edible – you could eat them, it was not dangerous to eat them. So we’d pick up the biggest trout, for example, and take them back to camp and cook them up and Robert cooked his up in neatsfoot  oil! [Laughing] But it tasted alright! [Laughing] BM: So the fish are edible, but – RG: Well the FDA maintained that they weren’t, so it became illegal for us to do that. BM: So what’s happening then is these fish are coming to the surface, they’re suffocating and coming to the surface, and then you are counting? You are – RG: Well, yeah you do. You know the [inaudible] massive load of fish. BM: Yeah. RG: You do some sampling and – JN: The idea was to get rid of all the fish in the area. BM: Right. RG: Yeah. I was kind of always against that. I fought that project in the staff meeting because I told him I don’t like using poison on that grand of scale – because you’re killing everything. JN: Yeah, you kill the invertebrates as well. RG: I thought that was too heavy handed. BM: What did the water surface look like when this started to take effect? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  25   �JN: A lot of white bellies. RG: Yeah, and of course there’s also going to be a huge stink. BM: Yeah. RG: Pelicans and fish-eating birds (particularly pelican), they would get so many fish they couldn’t get out of the water. They’d fly off and then splash down again. It was really funny to watch them try to get off the water. BM: Holy smokes. RG: You had to make sure people – we had quite a force going around making sure people weren’t taking them up and eating them. BM: Right. RG: We had cornered the entire world market on rotenone. A lot of the Derris that grows in South America – they’re taking a lot of those out and putting in coke plants. So it was getting harder and harder to get that and it was quite a job to get that much rotenone. BM: Now tell me one more time the name of the plant that rotenone comes from? JN: Derris root. RG: Derris root. BM: How do you spell that? JN: D-E-R-R-I-S. BM: Okay. [Derris is a genus name; Derris elliptica from the tropical and subtropical climates was used to derive Rotenone.] JN: These are all techniques that we learned in summer camp, actually when you get right down to it. It was carried on into the profession by the students that went through those programs. RG: Yeah, but a lot of those were wrong and they’d just refine them so they would understand more how to fine-tune the program and actually use what you know. Taking out, you know, mosquitoes with a hammer or something like that. BM: Right. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  26   �JN: Actually the summer camp was really very interesting: in addition to all of these techniques that you learned, you developed a real fellowship with your fellow students. We’re in the field together, you slept together, you ate together; all of that sort of thing. RG: Camaraderie in a lot of ways. JN: You made life-long lasting friendships, actually which was very useful. We also had a lot of hijinx that went on. One that I remember particularly, we had one Japanese student (a guy by the name of Min Herinaca [spelled phonetically]. (He ended up getting his doctorate, and I think he’s retired as a professor up at University of Idaho now.) But anyhow, we had these mummy bags that we were sleeping in and I remember the Bud Phelps and two or three other guys got together and it was time to get up. Min was kind of reluctant to get out of bed in the morning and he was always snuggled down inside his sleeping bag. So we grabbed his sleeping bag and pulled off to the side and drop it like that (of course, two other guys would catch him) and he’d be going inside his bag like that! [Laughing] It’s amazing that he wouldn’t rip it out! [Laughing] JN: And the other thing is that we had . . .Yale University would bring their geology classes out and we would put them during summer camp in that area. Of course during the weekends – those poor guys they were out working all the time (the Yale guys were) – and our boys would go downtown to Delmar [bar in Logan, Utah] and get drunk! And they would come back up and in the middle of the night they would singing “bah, bah black sheep, have you any wool for me?” [Singing and laughing] Serenading the Yale boys! BM: Well you know, as far as you mentioned, all that stuff goes on and it does create fellowship and collegiality. And from what I’ve heard from some other folks about field camp is those are lifelong colleagues and lifelong friendships in many cases. JN: Yeah, absolutely. BM: Alright. Do you have one in particular that you can remember? JN: Life long fellowships? Bill McConnell and me. JN: Bill McConnell and I, we became like brothers, actually. We went to work for the Division of Wildlife – or the Fish and Game Department at that time. RG: That was the second and third PhD for USU. JN: Yeah. Yeah Bill was the second – Kenny Wolf was the first. RG: Wolf, I got to know real well when I was at Leetown. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  27   �JN: Kenny became a world-class virologist and was the “father” actually of fish virology. JN: Yeah. He was the first, and Bill McConnell was the second and I was the third PhD out of Fish and Wildlife. RG: Ken was also the one that figured out the life cycle of whirling disease. JN: Right. Nobody believed him! RG: But we’re not talking about just in Wildlife: that was number one, two, three, and four for the whole university. BM: Oh! RG: That was the beginning of the PhD programs. JN: Yeah. BM: Okay. RG: They were just as college for a while. JN: The Wildlife Department actually started the PhD programs in the university. BM: That’s right. What was your PhD in? JN: It was in Aquatic Ecology, basically: Aquatic Toxicology. BM: Studying? JN: It was studying florid effects on fish. That was mine. Bill McConnell’s PhD was on stream periphyton. BM: What’s that? JN: Stream algae. BM: Okay. JN: And Kenny Wolf’s was – RG: Blue sac. JN: Blue sac disease in fish. BM: And what is that disease? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  28   �RG: He did a lot of that work for White’s trout farm. JN: Yeah. RG: It’s tied up more with – JN: It’s a bacterial disease. RG: Well, but no. No, it’s ammonia and low circulation in the eggs. JN: Oh, yeah; it’s secondary bacterial infections. RG: Yeah, you got the – and it’s blue; the egg sac is blue. BM: Okay. RG: It took a long time before we figured it out. A lot of it was just short-circuiting the eggs while they were being incubated. Some of them weren’t all getting water. BM: And what was the source of that? RG: Mostly ammonia was actually part of the metabolism of the fish – JN: Metabolism of the eggs themselves. BM: Okay. RG: But the circulation was so poor that it would be high and up – [End Tape 1: B; begin Tape 2:A] RG: So anyway, like the two week intensive training that I gave the hatchery people. They were there for two weeks – through the weekends, you know. We went straight through because I didn’t want to send them back, way out all over the state, that’s too much money. So, on Sunday we would have a picnic or something you know. But I noticed that over the years – I took about 12 or 13 of them at a time, you know. And then we’d do it until we had them all. So we were about a dozen groups that I would have for two weeks. But I noticed that every time, after that when you’d have a section-wide or division-wide meeting at Camp Williams or whatever, those guys were hanging out together. And that’s part of that life-long – BM: Right. RG: It’s just not the fact that you took the group, but it’s a fairly intense thing. They live together, they work together, they slept together, have a good time together, you know. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  29   �BM: Um-hmm. Right. RG: So it takes more than just, like up here just taking a class with somebody. BM: Um-hmm. RG: That’s really important, I think. JN: That was one of the really great benefits about summer camp, I thought. Like I say, we have lifelong friendships that unfortunately we keep burying now. One of the things that stemmed out of it was our Mossback group. Actually our peers that we’ve worked together for all these many years, but the summer camp together (a lot of us did) and ended up carrying out in our so-called Mossback group. RG: We were the ones that did the transition from empirical wisdom to science. JN: Yeah. BM: Do you want to explain that? RG: A lot of the empirical wisdom, you just kind of learn on the job from you know, a lot of them were pretty good at that. The people had a lot of good motivation and so forth, but they didn’t have that kind of training. The professionals went from the good ol’ boys that you hired that just knew what the animals in Logan were, to guys who were professionally trained and were going to use all these new procedures and methods and assessments. And all that becomes part of the interpretive stuff that’s brought up all the way through the legislature. BM: Um-hmm. RG: You know, and a way to keep track and compare and start to develop these data bases. And that was – John and Bill probably started that. They’re the ones that kicked that off. But that whole bunch then became that – I call it the “vanguard” for that transition. I also called it – in that Mossback book, I called it “vanguards of a young profession;” because it was very much a young field. JN: After World War II it was. BM: Now, tell us a little bit about the “Mossback” group because I think they are crossreferenced at Special Collections, or will be. RG: Yeah, they have a copy of that book. I gave that to Brad [Cole] [USU Special Collections & Archives: 925 G551] BM: So the Mossbacks are…..doesn’t sound like foresters. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  30   �RG: No. JN: No, it was actually mostly fishery people. RG: Yeah, it’s basically something that’s been around long enough that it’s got moss growing on its back! JN: We had some few other people come in. RG: They are still peers. JN: Yeah Doug Day was a peer. I think he did one year of work up here at Utah State, and he got his degrees down at University of Utah. And the other guy we brought in was Bob Benke, who was actually University of California-bred. RG: And Bob Wiley. JN: Bob Wiley, who was University of Wyoming-bred. But they were peers and they were people that we worked with. RG: They were working on Flaming Gorge, and all these things, where we shared the waters, you know: Flaming Gorge, Lake Powell, a lot of interstate waters. I remember those kind of became part of your peer group. JN: Jack Jensen was the other one too. RG: Jack was actually one. JN: He was a Penn Stater. RG: You’ll enjoy talking to Jack. He’s just a first-class guy. BM: I’m looking forward to it. What about, you know? What field camp faces through the decades with so many other people that have talked about it are challenges. And keeping in form, you mentioned one in terms of the GI Bill being so beneficial to supporting, and so that pressure for earning money that summer wasn’t there. Were there other challenges with you? I mean how did they handle families? If people came in that had wives or children? JN: Oh. Well here at the university we had temporary housing. BM: JN: Okay. They were actually military buildings that were – actually Utah State was known for one time as the “West Point of the West.” We had a huge ROTC group here. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  31   �RG: The student housing was called “Morning Sickness Row.” JN: Yeah. [Laughing] JN: It was! Yeah – RG: It was “Morning Sickness Row”! “We’re over in Morning Sickness Row…” JN: But the temporary buildings – they’re all gone now, but – BM: Where were those located? JN: Where the Ag Sciences building is right now – BM: Um-hmm. JN: That area. RG: They used to be over where the over where the Triads [married student housing, now called Aggie Village] are too, weren’t they? JN: No. That was all farm land. RG: Yeah, that’s right. JN: And an airport. We had an airport up here when I first came out here. BM: So what did these buildings look like? JN: Well, have you seen those temporary military barracks? We also had Quonset huts were part of it. RG: Quonsets. JN: We had a trailer park that – RG: They weren’t very plush. JN: Yeah, they weren’t very plush, but they were old military trailers. And then we had two story buildings that were divided up into apartments. When Ruth and I came out here (we were married when we came out here), we rented an apartment in one of those – an upstairs apartment. It was a one bedroom (I don’t think there were any two bedrooms, there was only one bedroom ones), and a combination living room/dining room, and a bathroom and that was it. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  32   �BM: You’re up in summer camp for two months and Ruth is in town? JN: I wasn’t married at that time. BM: Okay. JN: She came later. I told you about when I first came out here in 1950 and came across a dirt road down Laketown Canyon to Bear Lake. I got this spiritual experience going through the canyon. Two years later I brought my new bride down the same way: down through Laketown canyon. And it was in January, and the lake was frozen, there was snow all around it, you know. And we came down into the bottom of the Logan Canyon and came to a sign that says, “You are now entering Logan: a town designed for living.” And Ruth said, “Where’s the town? Where’s the town?” [Laughing] JN: I took her over to the Quonset, which was just upside and said, “This is our apartment.” And she said, “Well where’s the town?” [Laughing] JN: I finally took her downtown and she was so delighted to see that there was a drugstore down there. RG: Only one: Lowcost. JN: Lowcost, yeah! BM: How big was Logan at that time? JN: Oh, only about 8,000 people, I think. Something like that. RG: Yeah, the whole valley was about 30,000. JN: Well at that time, no, the valley was even less than that! It was, I think it was 16,000 people. RG: Strictly rural. BM: Wow. JN: Strictly rural, yeah. [Stop and start recording] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  33   �JN: Fieldwork that went on, we’d have to get permission from the Ranger. So the Ranger would work with us, for example. BM: This is the Ranger on the Logan District? JN: The Logan District, right. BM: Okay. JN: Let’s see, we also – I can’t remember that we had any Fish and Game people involved at that time. No, not at that time. It was mostly the Forest Service. And some of our field trips took us out into Bureau of Land Management land, and we’d have the BLM Ranger talk to us, give us some of the umbrella-sort of experiences. BM: And where did you go? JN: Well, for the Forest Service we stayed here in the Cache. BM: Um-hmm. JN: A lot of the Fish and Game work we went down to the Bear River Bird Refuge – we did a lot of work down there on birds and also on fish. Bureau of Land Management was over in Rich County, basically. We’d get into that and we’d have (I can’t recall the names of the people that we had involved down there at that time). Most of our fieldwork was done locally. We didn’t go off on any long distance – a lot of that came later. At the university in our junior and senior years, especially senior year, we organized into what we referred to as “senior field trips.” These were usually two week affairs that we went through the west. We’d go – two of them that I was involved in as a student – we went into the Columbia River basin, for example, stayed at Oregon State, Northern California, southern Washington and Oregon; spent our time there looking at salmon fisheries and all this sort of stuff. The second one that we went into the desert. We went down into the Grand Canyon area, Arizona, New Mexico, desert big game range. It was mostly a big game thing. This was the wildlife thing. The foresters also had similar trips, as did the range management people. But that also stopped after a while; they stopped doing that. I remember after I joined the faculty I took several of them out on field trips myself. You know, it always ended up being a big logistic problems because you had to find places to stay and feed your troops kind of stuff. RG: Even that sort of thing, I think, was probably impacted to a certain extent by the GI Bill. BM: How so? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  34   �RG: Because even two weeks was not an easy thing for somebody that was having to work just to stay in school. BM: Right. JN: Yeah. RG: And I think once the GI Bill petered out, that was pretty much what stopped it. JN: That pretty well stopped that kind of stuff, yeah. BM: Well and it also sounds like field camp was all of the departments together – JN: Yeah, it was. RG: Yeah. BM: And these senior field trips were more separated by your specialties. JN: They were separated, yeah. BM: Okay. JN: Into your specialty areas, yeah. Up here in the Cache, a lot of our work was centered on what became the school forest later on. And actually I remember when I went to work after summer camp, I went to work for Dr. Daniels and Ray Moore, my two team leaders were Sterling Rickman and (I can’t remember his name, he was from Arkansas) [Sam Jackson]. Anyhow, our job was basically to go out and lay out growth plots. We did chain and compass work with that. And we laid out a grid of growth plots that became the basis for growth on the forest. Later on they would revisit these plots every year to see what the changes in growth were and the species composition, and so on. And that was really very interesting work for me. BM: And you’re getting long-term information. JN: And long-term information that the school really benefit – or the research done by the Forestry Department - actually benefited from. I do remember that we had a campout – we didn’t have cabins or anything to stay in, so we stayed in tents – and I became very constipated and developed a severe case of bleeding hemorrhoids. BM: Oof! RG: It was the pain in the ass! JN: Yeah, it was a pain in the ass. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  35   �[Laughing] [Omitted from transcript personal information] BM: Well one other thing that you haven’t mentioned is Benchmark Hill. Was this part of your era? JN: Yeah, that’s where we did a lot of our surveying work. BM: Right. JN: That’s why it was called “Benchmark Hill.” We learned about the U.S. Geological Service benchmark system. And we did have a benchmark there. Then we had to locate benchmarks on the rest of the forest; that was part of our exercise. That’s where we also found a lot of rattlesnakes. That was “Rattlesnake Hill” as far as I was concerned. The first three rattlesnakes I ever saw in the state of Utah, I stepped on…before I saw them! BM: Yeah. JN: Fortunately I was never bit. BM: Oh! RG: They were still taking courses in surveying too, weren’t they? JN: Yeah, that was surveying courses. RG: You’d take actually a course in surveying. JN: Yeah, that was after. RG: After. JN: No, no, no. That was – I transferred from the University of Wisconsin, so I had my surveying back there. But you took your surveying here as a freshman and a sophomore, before summer camp. RG: Yeah. I took mine at Nebraska. JN: Yeah. RG: Everybody had benchmarks to work with. BM: You know, it sounds like (and you mentioned before) what an experience this was in terms of eating, sleeping and dreaming together and working hard. I mean I bet there were some long hours. RG: Yeah. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  36   �JN: There were long hours. It was hard work, there were long hours, yeah. RG: But you didn’t mind it; I didn’t mind it. You’d get tired, but you had fun doing it. Just a great experience. JN: Oh, Sam Jackson was the other guy’s name: Sam Jackson and Sterling Rickman. Sterling Rickman died, I think two years after we graduated from the University, from the college. And Sam Jackson became some kind of a big shot down in Arkansas. I think he became the director of the Arkansas Department of Fish and Game. BM: Hmm. Well when you think of students today that are graduating in these fields (you know, all the departments within Natural Resources), what are they missing by not having something like a field camp experience? JN: Well one of the things I think they’re missing is the camaraderie; field experience, the technology and techniques. This is the sort of thing now they have to learn on the job, after they get hired. RG: We also, in those days, we didn’t have such thing as work study students. You helped your colleagues. JN: Oh yeah! RG: Otherwise, you were dead in the water. Everybody would just go out and go help set nets, or go help electro-shock or work with bottom samples. I learned more from those things than I did from my own study. And they would help me to. BM: So you weren’t getting paid for it, but it was hands-on learning? RG: Yeah. BM: That you could do with somebody doing a research project? RG: Yeah and none of you could do it because you’re all needed, so somebody’s got to hold the other end of the seine, or something like that. BM: Right, right. RG: If you don’t have – JN: And that was all volunteer. RG: Yeah. JN: Everybody volunteered to help everybody else. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  37   �RG: A lot of times you would end up – if you caught a bunch of fish – you’d have a big barbecue up the canyon or something like that. JN: Send [?] from Logan to Wyoming to bring a keg of beer back. RG: A keg of beer, yeah! [Laughing] JN: And the wives would make potato salad, and all that kind of stuff, and we would have a great, big blastoff. RG: It would often be last minute a lot of times because you didn’t plan it because you didn’t know you were going to have those fish always. BM: Right, right. RG: I don’t know whether I’m not that aware of it anymore because I’m not that involved up here anymore, but I don’t think it’s there; I don’t hear it, I don’t sense it. JN: I’ve got that impression. I’ve got the same impression that there isn’t that same kind of camaraderie among our graduate students, for example, as it used to be. Or among the faculty; the faculty have basically become isolated in their own area of endeavor, you know, and they don’t seem to want to get out of it for some reason. RG: They’ll all have lunch at the Skyroom [USU campus restaurant] or something, you know. But we used to have lunch right here and everybody was invited you know. JN: Yeah. Cases of glicksteich [unsure of spelling]. BM: What is that? JN: Malt liquor! RG: Malt liquor. It was pretty strong stuff. It came in about this size. BM: Well it sounds like the camaraderie was field oriented, versus being office or building, or Skyroom oriented, as you’re saying. JN: Well it was and it wasn’t. After I became a faculty member, I used to have a graduate student bull pen where all my graduate students would be housed together. And that sort of a thing went on after I graduated as a student and became a faculty member. And those were interesting. Every morning I would go down and sit with the graduate students and we would just talk about things at random. We kind of learned a hell of a lot from each other. I learned a lot as a faculty member too. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  38   �RG: [inaudible] good reason. JN: Yeah. The one thing that impressed me about that whole thing is I was the only Democrat in the whole bunch and all my students were Republicans. [Laughing] RG: Well they had the old cubicles there – JN: Oh yeah, in the old building. RG: In the old forestry building. JN: That was a bull pen. RG: Where the parking thing is out on the – what is that street? 8th? BM: Or 7th? RG: 7th? BM: Um-hmm. 7th North. RG: Yeah that was where – then you also had the guy you walk up the street – the old College Bluebird. That’s where everybody had coffee. BM: Where was that? RG: It was basically where the LDS Institute is up there. BM: Okay. JN: Right on that corner. BM: So on the corner of 8th East and 7th North, at that light? In from there? JN: Yeah. RG: Yeah. JN: Right across from the Student Center. RG: And that’s where all the non-Mormons were. BM: The College Bluebird? So this is the Bluebird Restaurant? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  39   �JN: Yeah. RG: It was the same logo – JN: It was owned by the same people. RG: -- same people. Everybody ate lunch there; you had coffee there. That’s where you’d go see Bill Sigler. JN: Yeah. BM: Huh. RG: A lot of big conversations sitting – you could also smoke there then. JN: Yeah, no smoking. Well, no actually we were allowed to smoke in the buildings at that time, yeah. A faculty member could smoke in their own offices; that’s what it boiled down to. Students always went outside to smoke. BM: If you wanted to change that and you look at what we have now, because I think what you’re sharing is very similar to what many other people talk about. If you wanted to bring back or move ahead with increasing that feeling of camaraderie and some of the benefits that were in these other programs – if you ran the world, what would you do differently? What would you suggest for that, if I can ask? RG: Well there’s one thing that I’ve been thinking about just recently, a couple of things that Obama has actually suggested: volunteer service where you got credits (like the GI’s did for the GI Bill, you know) to go to college and that sort of thing. I think that’s one of the serious things that’s missing. We don’t have that kind of shared experience anymore in this country. We all had a do it or something like that, or the ones that did do it got some kind of reward for doing. So they had that sense of group and also some tangible reward for going to college so they could do things like this. JN: The culture has changed substantially though. Personally, I would like to see something like the CCC started again. I think what Ron is talking about – not necessarily a volunteer (you get paid for it, you get paid poorly), but you do get that kind of experience. RG: I suppose like the Peace Corps and those types of things. JN: Like the Peace Corps. You know, there are a variety of things like that. But boy, our parks and our Forest Service facilities, and all of these things are in sore need of attention; financial attention of one sort or another, and by George this administration could create a CCC to put people to work in these areas. RG: I think that’s kind of what he has in mind. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  40   �JN: I sure hope so, that’s what he has in mind. RG: He made quite a play with that. JN: Yeah. BM: Well, and even being paid poorly in those positions, for many people, being paid at all may be very important in the next few years. JN: Absolutely! Yeah, sure. BM: And being able to use those skills. RG: But you know, like I say, I really don’t think that stuff would have been at all available if it hadn’t been for the GI Bill. JN: Yeah, I agree. RG: In fact, after the GI Bill dried up, that was the end of it. BM: And when did that dry up? When was that over? JN: In the ‘70s, with Vietnam, yeah. Well, you could still get credit for college in the military (right now you can get it now), but it’s not like it used to be. It used to be you could get the full ride and they paid you a salary and everything. RG: Yeah, but in those days, during the Second World War, everybody was in. JN: Yeah. RG: Everybody. I mean, you were classified, you had a draft classification. When I was 18 I got my draft card. JN: There were two programs that were started. One was the education program on the GI Bill. It was a really great program because it was a full-ride program: you got a salary, they paid your tuition, they bought your books; they bought any fees for the college, and so on. It didn’t cost you a penny. You could go on through and get your education that way. And then they offered one other thing they called 52-20. And you’d get $20 for 52 weeks, and you didn’t have to go to school for it. However, if you took advantage of that you couldn’t take advantage of the GI Bill in college. So a lot of the people that didn’t want to get an education, they went to 52-20. RG: And a lot of them that did get it wouldn’t have if it hadn’t been for the GI Bill. JN: Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  41   �BM: Well any closing thoughts that we have on your experience? Personally or professionally? JN: I had a great life. That’s all I can say. I’m 80 years old now, and I really enjoyed just about every minute. Well, there were some things that I would’ve done differently I suspect. I got into University Administration; in retrospect I would have been happier, I suppose, if I’d have stayed as a teaching and research professor. BM: The administration you’re talking about is the Ecology Center? JN: It was the Ecology Center, yeah. And of course I became Associate Dean and all that sort of stuff. And dealing with people issues mostly. Of course I did a lot on the national scene: I became Director of Ecosystem Analysis at the National Science Foundation for a couple of years. Then became Director of the Institute of Ecology for four or five years, I think, I was involved in that. And that was TIE – it was basically environmental activism and that sort of thing. BM: And what is T-I-E? JN: The Institute of Ecology. BM: The Institute of Ecology, okay. RG: That’s the one that Art Hasler had. JN: Yeah, Art Hasler was the first director of it and I took over from him. Art Hasler was a BYU graduate, became professor of limnology in Aquatic Sciences at the University of Wisconsin and a long time professor in that area. He managed to establish a really good aquatic program there. It’s still going pretty strong. RG: I think that stuff thought, I could echo that, but I think a lot of it had to do with that camaraderie though. Lifelong peers and peer group type of associations and great friends. You fought a lot of the good, hard battles together, you know. I always like to say back to back, you know. That’s just hard to replace. And I really don’t see that happening – not in the same sense – not lifelong. I’ve felt that way for some time, that we don’t have that sort of thing even available in this country anymore. BM: So the opportunity doesn’t even exist? RG: Yeah. There is no place – service used to be one of the big equalizers. Everybody grew up doing service. JN: One of the faculty members – he and I stay in close email contact with each other – Jack Schulz (and Joann Schulz). They had a similar experience at the University of Michigan. They have a group that they call “les voyageurs” that is basically they take the name from the French explorers in the area. They get together every year. In the wintertime they do Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  42   �snow shoeing. Long treks in the summertime they get together, as a group; the same sort of a thing that we had then. It’s a camaraderie that started at the University of Michigan and has lasted. Michigan State University had a summer camp at Gull Lake in Michigan. And those people, as I understand it, do pretty much the same thing that we’re doing here – in the camaraderie. But these are all people from back post-World War II. A lot of them are dead or retired and/or dead now. But that sort of thing is missing; I agree with Ron completely it is missing. You don’t see the same thing happening. Do you see it going up at the university? [End recording] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Neuhold  and  Ron  Goede     Page  43   � Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Where else is this found? Give the URL for the item, if it is in another respository (like CONTENTdm) <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/LoganCanyon/id/36">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/LoganCanyon/id/36</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Hosted by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Conversion Specs Recording equipment: Radio Shack Cassette Recorder: CTR-122 Transcription equipment: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2012-11-12 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource John Neuhold and Ron Goede interview, 22 February 2009, and transcript Description An account of the resource John Neuhold and Ron Goede discuss their experiences at the Utah State University Summer Camp (and the skills and camaraderie they gained there) and other experiences in their education, including those with the GI Bill. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Goede, Ronald W., 1934- Neuhold, John M. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Middleton, Barbara Subject The topic of the resource Goede, Ronald W., 1934---Interviews Neuhold, John M.--Interviews Utah State University--Faculty--Interviews Utah State University. Forestry Field Station Camp United States. Montgomery G.I. Bill Veterans--Education--Utah--Logan Forestry schools and education--United States Utah. Division of Wildlife Resources--Officials and employees--Training Ecology--Study and teaching--Utah--Logan Forests and forestry--Study and teaching--Utah--Logan Forest management--Study and teaching--Utah--Logan Canyon Range management-Study and teaching--Utah--Logan Canyon Fishery management--Study and teaching--Utah--Logan Canyon Rotenone--Utah Goede, Ronald W., 1934---Friends and associates Neuhold, John M.--Friends and associates Mossbacks (Club) Logan (Utah)--History Utah State University--Students--Anecdotes College teachers--Utah--Logan--Interviews Utah State University. Forestry Dept.--Research Ecology--Fieldwork--Utah--Logan Canyon Forests and forestry--Fieldwork--Utah--Logan Canyon Forest management--Fieldwork--Utah--Logan Canyon Range management--Fieldwork--Utah--Logan Canyon Fishery management--Fieldwork--Utah--Logan Canyon Voluntarism Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Oral histories Interviews Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Logan Canyon (Utah) Logan (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Utah United States Logan (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1950-1959 1960-1969 1970-1979 1980-1989 1990-1999 2000-2009 20th century 21st century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection, FOLK COLL 42 Box 3 Fd. 2 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection can be found at: <a href="http://library.usu.edu/folklo/folkarchive/FolkColl42.php">http://library.usu.edu/folklo/folkarchive/FolkColl42.php</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Fife Folklore Archives Curator, phone (435) 797-3493 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FolkColl42bx3fd2RonGoedeJohnNeuhold Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 22 February 2009 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2009-02-22 Is Version Of A related resource of which the described resource is a version, edition, or adaptation. Changes in version imply substantive changes in content rather than differences in format. Logan Canyon Reflections https://highway89.org/files/original/c7dbf87062e63e2e01f16cd3dd8ffab7.mp3 6e43a491cb771a222a83e2341e4abb12 https://highway89.org/files/original/e0de45f69d9ebb87cef3b6c67f7ce874.pdf fb3f1710dbcdca4777fb1ff8a2e5e200 PDF Text Text LAND USE MANAGEMENT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: Ron Goede Place of Interview: Ron Goede’s home in Logan, Utah Date of Interview: 16 October 2008 Interviewer: Recordist: Elaine Thatcher and Brad Cole Elaine Thatcher Recording Equipment: Marantz PMD660 Digital Recorder Transcription Equipment used: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems Transcribed by: Glenda Nesbit Transcript Proofed by: Elaine Thatcher, Randy Williams (3/09; July 2011); Ron Goede reviewed (27 July 2011) Brief Description of Contents: Ron discusses his family life, education in Nebraska in a German and Russian German communities, undergraduate work University of Nebraska, involvement with the Air National Guard as an aircraft mechanic, graduate studies at Utah State University in fisheries, and his career in fisheries in Utah. Reference: ET = Elaine Thatcher (Interviewer; Director, USU Mountain West Center for Regional Studies) BC = Brad Cole (Interviewer; Associate Dean, USU Libraries) RG = Ron Goede NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION DISC One ET: This is Elaine Thatcher and Brad Cole. We are with Ron Goede at his home in Logan. And it is October 16, 2008. And it’s about 2:15 in the afternoon. And so we’re going to talk with Ron about his career in fisheries and whatever else comes up in the conversation. So Ron, why don’t you start by stating your full name your birthday and birth place? RG: Okay. Well my full name is Ronald William Goede. G O E D E. I’ve gotten used to that all the time now. So I remember. I was born in Columbus, Nebraska on April 4, 1934. Let’s see what all do we need now. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 1   �ET: No that’s all I asked you for. RG: Do you want me to just proceed with that. ET: Well if you just want to give us a quick rundown on... did you grow up there? RG: Well I was there until I was twelve. It was; I don’t know it was a German thing. And I was raised in a German neighborhood. So my father was a German Lutheran Minister. And spoke German. And we moved to Lincoln. And then I grew up in a German Russian immigrant culture. He took over a church there. And that’s kind of where I grew up. So a lot of my, a lot of my cultural background, even though it’s not my blood background. I was Prussian, you know. But my background actually was more German than Russian. ET: So did you grow up speaking some German? RG: Oh yea. Yea ET: You still speak it? RG: Yea. Not like I did before. I’m getting self-conscious about it. BC: What was your dad’s name? RG: Herman Martin Adolf Gerda BC: And your mother? RG: She was Irene Lavern Hahappold. HAHAPPOLD. And she was from a farming community. I had an intellectual side with my father’s side and she was from a big German farming community. Ronald Grandion, Nebraska. So on those two were big in my background. I learned to have a lot of consideration and respect for both the intellectual and the working side. Thought a lot of both of them; and that’s kind of stayed with me, always has. ET: What was your education like? RG: Um. Well of course I went to public school in Columbus up to the sixth grade and then went to high school in Lincoln: Lincoln High School. And then I graduated. And then [in] 1952 from there and then I started to attend [the] University of Nebraska in Lincoln. Started in engineering but didn’t like it. Stayed with it for a couple of years and then got out of it and went into arts and science. And that was a real turn on for me. So after the engineering I majored in botany. And then also I had a major in Botany and also one in Zoology. And I got a degree out of Lincoln: a bachelor’s degree. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 2   �ET: So you had a double major? RG: Yea a double major. ET: Botany and Zoology. RG: At that time they asked you to have one major and two minors or two majors. And so I was really into the biology period. So anyway I also got involved at this time in the military was hanging over your heads pretty hard. So I ended up, while I was going to University of Nebraska, I joined the National Guard. And I was in the Air National Guard and I was trained as an aircraft mechanic. So I worked up, went through one enlistment there. And then I ended up with about a year of active duty there too in the Air Force. At that time you had to have eight years in some combination military. The more active duty you had the less reserve time you had to do. So I was in there until I was going to be until for that eight years. And then I let’s see. I came to school up here at Utah State. I didn’t know what I wanted to do with biology so I applied for graduate work at: Duke and British Columbia for forestry; and Missouri and Utah State for fisheries; and Wisconsin and Purdue for pathology. And I figured well I’ll let them wade it out you know. And I got accepted at all of them. And so then that didn’t help. So I decided, actually one of the reasons I came to Utah was simply because I’d never been to Utah before. I could have easily gone any one of those directions because I was interested in all of it. But with a degree in Botany and Zoology, a bachelor’s, the only job offer I got was with the – was a fruit inspector in a post office in Kansas City. And I decided well I’d better rethink this. That wasn’t one of them things I had on my plan. ET: So you were still doing your time in the National Guard when you got accepted here? RG: Yea, that’s right. I would have just been finishing it here: the National Guard. And then when I came here there wasn’t an Air National Guard unit at that time close by here so I went into the standby’s reserve. I was still doing my eight year. And then let’s see, I finished the degree well somewhere in there. Let’s see in 1958 I went to work for River Basin Studies for the Fish and Wildlife Services River Basin studies in Alaska; and [I] did biological surveys on the Sisitna and the Yukon. ET: Was this after you got your masters? RG: No, this was between, about half way. I didn’t have any money. And I hitchhiked. I did about a year here and I was advised I had to get some money somewhere. And I hitchhiked to Seattle. And then from Seattle the Fish and Wildlife Service paid [for me to travel to Anchorage]. And then I had to live in a warehouse; I was just gonna go right to the boondocks, rather than get an apartment. I just lived in a Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 3   �warehouse: a Fish and Wildlife Service warehouse and slept on a sack of seines [fish nets]. And I had that little stove in there and they’d bring. The guys that worked the commercial fish stuff would bring me little catches every day. I had shrimp and things like that. But it wasn’t too . . . couldn’t have many guests. And then went out to start doing their surveys. And they hired me primarily for my botany because they wanted me to do complete biological surveys in impoundments. They were talking about putting three major impoundments on the Mississippi River. And they wanted to know everything that was alive basically in that proposed impoundments area up to everything that was going to be impounded. So I worked the length of the Susitna. And I finished the project. ET: And you were identifying plants at some point. RG: Everything. Fish and anything I could get. But plants are the one they were worried about; because it tied in so much to the game forage and everything else. And the streams were pretty heavily fed by the glaciers; by the Susitna Glacier. So it looked a lot like a sidewalk, you know, gray, the Susitna. And the salmon couldn’t make it up, the water was too rough. They had an area called Devil’s Gorge; the salmon couldn’t even get by there. In fact we lost a person. We lost a person in Devil’s Gorge. But I finished that project. And then I decided I had to make some decisions. Of course I couldn’t spend anything because I gave the banks of power of attorney because I wasn’t in town. There was no place to spend it. And so they just kept depositing it. That got me to where I could afford to go back to school. So I came back to Utah State. And I had a master’s project. I wrote a project up for and it went to Bill Sigler [he] was my major professor. He was in charge of the Fisheries program, the wildlife department then. And I wrote one [mater project] up on the effects of sodium fluoride. Fluoride was a big issue then: fluoridization. And so I had a project on the effects of sodium fluoride on primary productivity of a stream. I worked it out on the Logan River. So when I finished that. That took a couple of years. That was a slow process. In those days you didn’t get a lot of money for [graduate work?]. A matter of fact I built my experimental unit out of an old airplane canopy; one that Sigler had from surplus. It was a plastic airplane canopy and I had to cut it and I molded it in my oven in my apartment; burnt the hell out of myself. And it worked and then they decided to go ahead and build some for me – have them built. ET: So these were what? RG: They were microcosms. They were tubes where I could put samples of algae and so forth in there and then run the water past and collect the gasses and so forth. And then I would measure the chlorophyll in the plants to give an idea of what the productivity was. And that would go up or down, depending where the fluoride level was. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 4   �ET: Did the fluoride have a negative effect on the growth? RG: Not too much. It actually got a little. They got a kind of a carbon dioxide gush when you treat them with the fluoride. So it had an impact but we never, with that particular study we didn’t work out whether that was bad or not. But it was, it was. We didn’t have calculators then either. Except the big Marchant and Fridens [calculators] you know. We had to wait in line to use the calculators. You could have never set that on a table because it went ka kink, ka kink, ka kink. Finally it would slosh over. So anyway that was when I got a job. I started to work on a Ph.D. but it was just. I simply needed to find a way to make some money again. And I was kind of burned out with the whole process anyway. So I got a job with Missouri; the State of Missouri, and started to work for them. And I worked for about I think I went to work for them like in June of ’61. And then in October of ’61 yea October of ’61 they had the Berlin crisis and I got activated because I was still in the reserve. I only had about three months left on my eight years and I got activated. So of course then I’d joined a unit in Ohio and then they decided they didn’t have a crisis. But you couldn’t get out, you know. They didn’t have a crisis but they couldn’t let you go either. So I spent a year there just volunteering for temporary duty anywhere I could, just to keep it interesting. So I flew all over. And I was still a mechanic. And I was flying all over the country. So then when I got [out] Missouri had to [give me a job again]. [They] gave me a leave you know; they had to when I got activated. Except the same job wasn’t there [when I got out, so] I had to take a different job. And when I got to back to Missouri, I was working for their research group under Slim Funk: John L. Funk, out of Columbia, Missouri and then I took over. Just before I went to the service I had taken over the paddlefish study. This was the reason I was interested in Missouri in the first place. Of course I didn’t get that back. But I was also doing small bass mouth reproduction studies. And I kind of lost, lost those projects. And I ended up in lakes and impalement studies and I finally took over their public use – management in their public use areas like St. Louis and Kansas City and places. And then they started, they sent me to Stutguard, Arkansas to a workshop that Fred Meyer had. Fred Meyer was a parasitologist with the Fish and Wildlife Service. And run it at the fish farming experiment station in Stutguard. And that was a two-week class. And that really turned me on. That was a really it was . . . it wasn’t strict fisheries, it was more fish health. And Fred told me that in about ten years ago fishery biologists would be a dime-a-dozen. But fisheries biologists with a special deal and I said, Wow that’s heavy. So I went back to Missouri and I wasn’t back there long. And I gave several papers, reports on the class. And I enjoyed doing that. That was fun. And I still like to do things like that. Like to talk, I like to talk to a crowd. Just like the Bridgerland Folk Society. But anyway while I was doing that, they asked me that their Chief of Fisheries, P.G. Barnacle in Columbia and he was, would have been. I mean yea, Chief of Fisheries. And he worked out of Jeff City, Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 5   �Jefferson City. But he asked me if I was interested in, well he wanted me to take a tour of their, the state fish hatcheries which were directed by AG George Morris who ended up being. I would class George as another one of my mentors. But he was a native Hillbilly: a very good fish rater. ET: Fish what? RG: Fish culturalist. And Missouri, well a lot, well a lot of the culturists in those days were locals. You know the people that have a knack for it are real savvy of doing it. They didn’t know why they were doing some of those things. But when I was taking the tour he had another man Harvey Willoughby was along. And he was chief of hatcheries for the Fish and Wildlife Service out in Minneapolis. And I had a good time with them. I could really relate to Harvey. And so Harvey and George both became really good friends. And they were until they died. I was always in touch with those two. But George and Harvey were both inducted into the Fish Culture Hall of Fame, they call it in Spearfish, South Dakota. A Fish and Wildlife - there’s a national program. ET: I never knew it was there. RG: Yea. And they have. So those two both made it into the [Hall of Fame]. And so they would good ones to draw to you know. Then they asked me if I would. What? ET: The Fish Culture Hall of Fame? And it’s with what the state fisheries up there? RG: No. It was actually started by someone. Actually a friend of mine, Arden Trandell, who was Fish and Wildlife Service. ET: Arden Trandell? RG: Trandell. Yes. And then he retired. But he’s, in fact I think Arden’s in there too. And then he ran it; took care of it for them for awhile, after he retired. And they’ve got the biosketches and CV of everybody’s that’s gotten. I’ve got all those. They ran it kind of through the American Fisheries Society. Then after I took that tour Harvey got his degree. Harvey Willoughby. I’m just, I’m pointing. This is a nondescript point. Amorphous. I guess. But anyway Harvey got his degree at Montana State with C.J. DeBrown. And he had two thumbs. From this joint down there were two little thumbnails. ET: Oh my word. RG: Just on the one hand. And I learned fairly early on that he would distract you that way. When you were arguing with him, he’d fool with that thumb. And I’d tell him, “Damn it Harvey, put that in your pocket.” And he’s says, “Well it works sometimes.” And I’d say, “Well I bet you can pick both nostrils at the same time.” Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 6   �ET: But he was just a wonderful guy. He finally retired in oh Grand Junction. And he’s dead now. And his name is Willoughby? RG: Willoughby. W I L L O U G H B Y. Just a great guy; he ended up being Chief of Hatcheries for the Forest and Wildlife Service out of Washington. And really did a lot of work with new species of fish in Europe oh like the Samo Hucho hucho. The big Danube trout that they tried [and the] Lake Horid trout that they brought over here and tried in this country. Neither one of them worked all that well. But he was just a real ET: The Danube trout and the what? RG: Lake Horid. I think its H O R I D trout. It was from Central Europe. From the Alps. But Harvey was a shaker and a mover you know. He was a good advocate of culture and disciplined culture. And I thought a lot of Harvey. And George was. Old George Morris was a great, had a great influence on me. And I had my, when I was trained. When I got out of the Air Force this last time; after then they gave me a discharge you know. Then I was finished with it. But I had nine years by this time. But while I was an aircraft mechanic I got an enormous respect for preventive maintenance. And I was a crew chief taking care of the aircraft, you know. And I was working with fighter aircraft. I had the F-80’s and 86’s and 84’s. And, but that stayed with me. I still feel that way. And I carried that became part of my professional credo. You know that take care of it before it breaks. And don’t let it break with it’s up there. The pilots take issue with that. They don’t like that. When they were going down they looked to see who signed the paperwork. So this all, this all comes down to where I kind of. Where I went and why I went there, and what I did when I got there. You know. I started in Missouri I got really interested in the fish health was a big part of it. And the fish diseases. And while I was working for Missouri they sent me to Lee Town, West Virginia for about eight months to study and Dennis Snieszko, who was kind of one of the world leaders in fish pathology in the world. ET: What was his name again? RG: Snieszko. S N I E S Z K O: Dennis Stanislas Snieszko. He came here, he was educated in Poland and came here to get away from Hitler. And because they wanted him on their bacteria warfare; and he wouldn’t do it. So he came here and went to work for Kent Dietrich which was bacteria warfare in this country. But that was okay as long as it wasn’t Adolf. And he didn’t like it. He was a gentle man. And I had, I had it [?] So I got those three. I had four mentors in my life. My father was one and then Snieszko, Bill Sigler and George Morris. People that had that kind of impact on me. A lot of people were teachers, but I always add a Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 7   �little extra for the mentors. They really get down inside. And I guess Dennis Snieszko is dead now. But boy I had a huge respect for him. Um, let’s see. ET: How long were you there? RG: About eight months; it was training, a formal training. They would only take four people a year. So then I was one of the four and it was very intense. Eight hours a day. You had four hours in a lecture and then four hours in the lab. All just, every day of the week. And you know, you were, you had exams and all that business. So it was formal. And Snieszko made a comment. He had been criticized by some of his peers for taking time out for to train from a research program. And his response to that was, there’s no point in building the bricks if there’s no one to build the houses. I still get choked up with this because he really meant a lot. And that stuck with me. And I never got that out of my system. So I did all my career a lot of training. But always I did it at the University here. But I did a lot of workshops. And when I developed that autopsy system I taught that to around 1500 people in 32 different states. And so that was a heavy, heavy part of my program was to pass on what we were finding to people, other professionals. So and I just. There were just us two. About two years ago. Two or three years ago I got the Snieszko Award finally. For distinguished service from the American Fisheries. And it’s interesting. You know one of the other scientists there, which I got to be really good friends with and was also, is a world famous pathologist. He’s dead now too. But it was Ken Wolfe. And Ken got the first Ph.D. here at Utah State. ET: Really RG: Not in fisheries. But the first. That was right after they went to the, at University from Ag College to University. He was the first Ph.D., Bill McConnell got the second one and John Neuhold got the third one. So, but Ken was a. He started the work with cell culture and stuff with, in fisheries. And so they could do. He was the first, developed the first cold-blooded cell line. So they could do the work with viruses. And I used his methods when I came here I found virus in Kamas; at the Kamas hatchery: the IPN virus. And started his cell culture here in my lab. But I was close friends with Ken until he died too. And Glen Hoffman was kind of the big. Did a lot of the early work on whirling disease. He was there too. These guys were all world class fish pathologists, men very well known. Hooked into. n Italy everybody came there to see those guys, you know. So you got to meet all these people and talk to them. And a lot of them spoke German. ET: So you got along fine. RG: Yea. It was funny how many of them did speak German; they weren’t all Germans. But German for awhile was kind of the technical language, scientific language. So anyway, so that’s where. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 8   �Then I came back to Missouri and I built their first disease lab, fish disease lab that they’d had. Down in southeast Missouri, down near Cassville Missouri. Not too far, about sixty miles out of Springfield. At a stake park down there. And had, and started working with fish quality. I liked that. I took it a step beyond the health and or disease and decided I was interested in the quality in a more general attack. And disease was just a part of that. And that’s kind of, that kind of became my thrust, all through the rest of my career. Was the fish quality and of course a lot of work with disease. But always in the context of quality. ET: So about what year are we up to now? When you came back to that RG: When I came back… I came to Utah after. I came back to in ‘62 after the air activation. And then went to Missouri for about eight months. And then came … I had worked before. I had to work. I went to work for the hatcheries there after Harvey. Had that meeting with Harvey, tour with Harvey Willoughby and George Morris. Apparently I didn’t know that but I was being assessed or evaluated. To see, because they were worried about putting a technical person with these old guys. You know. They weren’t happy about me being there. Those old guys. They had. Then you had a college graduate they stuck a couple of adjectives in there too. But Harvey maintained that since George was kind of a hillbilly himself. But Harvey said he didn’t know many people who would, who would get along with those guys. But he thought I would. And so the very first job I had there was working. And so I went to work as a hatchery biologist. And very first job I had there was a disease case. I never forgot. I still use this in lectures and stuff. But the, he didn’t want me there. That was pretty obvious. And he was very nervous about me being there. ET: Harvey didn’t? RG: No this old guy that was the hatchery superintendent for the Roaring River Hatchery. Bob Price. And we ended up being really good friends too. But he asked me. I said, “Well in the first place in Missouri you don’t just sit down and get right at the subject. You’ve got to get over to it, you know. Talk about the weather and everything else, you know.” And I finally said, “Well I understand you’ve had some trouble here.” Oh, he says, “they’re dead. But I don’t think it’s anything serious.” And he was serious. He was serious as hell. But I knew just exactly what he meant. But I was really struggling to keep from laughing you know. And that’s always stuck with me. That there’s being serious and then there’s being serious. You know. He was worried about it wasn’t going to be serious for him. He knew the fish were in trouble. He didn’t know whether he was. ET: They’re dead, but it’s nothing serious. RT: Yea. But I don’t think it’s anything serious. And so I started picking up a lot of their jargon. Well we cut it off twice, but it’s still too short. And then I’ve. I had a Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 9   �pretty active program there. And I started the kind of an inspection of the stations. Boy I spent an awful lot of time on the road, sitting there drawing stuff on napkins in the coffee shops, trying to figure out how we’re going to approach this. I always used to. I always used the approach of what are we going to do? I never did say, “What can I do for you?” And I think that made a big difference for them, because I made sure that. Because they knew a lot of stuff about fish that I just. I knew how to. What we were going to have to call some of it. But they didn’t know. They knew what to do. They had a system for, when they had a leaking dam board and a raceway. You just can’t seem to stop it from leaking. They used horse manure. They called it super seal. But it’s the. And it didn’t work as well from cows because their ruminants and they break the fiber down too far. But horses they put, it’s dry. It has to be dry of course. They’ll put that in there and it sucks that in to those boards. And then it swells and it’s obsolete. ET: Oh for heaven’s sake. RG: And so. The first time I ever went looking for. Up at Kamas they were having leaky boards. And we went out and got some. I had a tech, one of the techs that was working for me. We walked: a gal. We walked out and got. I said I got a bucket and we went out and got some horse manure. And we came back and the assistant Superintendent Ron Russell. He said, what have you got? And he looked in there and he say’s I’m not sending you out for strawberries again. But they got a kick out of that. And so they started calling it super seal too. Now you can’t find horses. So there was a lot of those kinds of things. I had to take that and understand why it was working and try to bring it down into some kind of a quantifiable thing. And I loved it. I really fell in love with the work then. Because I felt that they needed me and I needed them. And then that’s always stuck with me. And it was with me when I came here. Bill Sigler recruited me down here. He called me and said that this job was open out here and that this lab was built in 61. They started building it in 61. George Post. And so he said, he wanted me. He was assigned, or asked by the State of Utah to find somebody. And so Sigler thought that I would be a good one for that. And so I came. And I thought then. I hated to leave Missouri but this was a whole new, whole new thing here. ET: What year was that? RG: That was ’66 when I came here. I was. Sigler called me in 65, the spring of 65 and I told him I wouldn’t do it unless I had at least three months to get somebody in place and trained to do the job there. So then they gave me that much time. And then I came here. But I always, quality, fish quality was central to my program. So that in 1967 I found the virus in Kamas in the Kamas hatchery. BC: And where’s Kamas at? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 10   �RG: It’s up by the Jordan[elle], by the Heber and Kamas and Midway. Kamas is on the Provo [River]. ET: It’s up on the Wasatch back. RG: Upper Provo River yea. ET: You found whirling disease up there. RG: No IPN virus. It was one of. It was actually. He was losing everything. In little brook trout. And I looked at those fish and I says, that’s. And I wasn’t even set up for it yet. And I said “that’s got IPN written all over it: Infectious Pancreatic Necrosis.” And so I had a friend in Hagerman, Idaho who was at the Federal Hatchery there. He was a hatchery biologist who had been through and had already set up some cell culture. And so I took samples up to him and we ran it through the lab there. And it came out positive. And then I, then I started. It took me awhile to set that all up here and the get the equipment I needed. And then I started the inspections. I started inspecting all of the stations. ET: So where was the lab here that you set up? Was it on campus? RG: Yea. No it was out at the experiment station across from the landfill there. BC: On second north? RG: Yea. And that’s. You know I had a little office. Merlin Olsen came out to see me and he didn’t even fit in my office. I told him Merlin we got to go outside. ET: That’s still a fisheries office isn’t it? RG: Yea. And it’s, it’s re-expanded a lot. It’s a full. That was about 1967. Well it was ‘68. I had basically a full service pathology lab going there. I had the cell cultures and we had the bacteriology and everything. And it stayed that way. Then in [?] cause now we’re starting to get down to here you know. This was the formative stuff that got me into all this. They were having a lot of trouble. You have to back up here now a little bit and realize where fisheries were at that time. You know. Like in the ‘50s still, fisheries was pretty trial and error. Especially in Utah and places like Utah because they were damming all the. Putting it would be the large central Utah project dams or small irrigation dams. But it was getting where they didn’t have fish for that. This was, there were no lakes in Utah other than the Uintas which didn’t have fish. And so you couldn’t just dam that up and hope that the fish that are there are going to take over. Because it was a different habitat. And so, and they were doing a lot of trial and error. There wasn’t a lot of sense. Just put barracuda in you know. Oh let’s try those. They’re pretty. And then you know. Piranha you don’t have to feed them very often, you know. Oh look, you’d put a hand. Put a sign there that says keep fingers out of water and you’d Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 11   �have it made you know because that’s an invitation to. Wouldn’t have to feed them. And this was a research program. The experiment station was primarily to develop fish culture techniques and methods and equipment to get better fish and more fish. Primarily more fish. And so I took issue with that whole, that whole idea. And I told them, I can’t buy. I don’t want to go for more fish. I’ll go for better fish. And that’s more of a sensible goal than as many fish as I can raise. I’d rather get the best fish I can raise. And then also decide what you’re going to plant; what species, when you know. When do you plant them, how many do you plant. And feed. They were still feeding a little meat when I got here. You know. In Missouri I had that too. I developed diets. But that was. You would feed livers. Get a lot of livers. And they’d dye them green so that you wouldn’t sell them for. And that was the law. And nothing like ET: And you fed that to the fish huh? RG: Nothing like grinding up a bunch of green liver you know. God, that’s awful stuff. And then the. Those old superintendents told us. Always figured you couldn’t raise a trout without liver. And so a lot of times they just almost beg you for more, some liver. Because they said, I know this is going to do it. And so I’d go ahead and I’d recommend a little liver for them, just because it made them feel good. It never did do any good. But anyway the upshot was, part of this is the fact that there were no diets for trout like the pellets. Like we feed now. And we were feeding some pellets, but the diets weren’t well worked out. And they would break in 40-50 days you know. They would have trouble. They would have to feed a little meat. And everybody, there were several serious programs in the country working on diets. So a good part of my first year or so was testing, developing and testing diets. I had mixers and pelleters and everything here. And then I’d have to. In order for anybody to bid on our feed contract, it might be a million pounds of feed. They would have to, we would have to test the feed. But all of this was part of that quality. A lot of the diseases; the bacterial and virus. The microbes that we had were there because of the feed wasn’t good enough. They made them very susceptible to everything that was trouble. And so we had to work. Then we so that’s program. We even had one that we worked out with Paul Cuplin who was Chief of Hatchers for Idaho. Paul and I worked up a program on jogging, fish jogging. We’d have them pull. Take the, in the hatchery, lower the water so that the fish would have to swim harder. And let them swim for about an hour and then fill it back up. Get ‘em ready. ET: Fish exercise program huh RG: We called it jogging. And we also had programs for stamina. And stamina was a big thing. And this gets in the whole idea of fish quality which was. But the fish stamina, we had a stamina tunnel out here where you would. It would be about eight foot long and a big. I think it was an 8 inch plastic Plexiglas tube and reservoirs. And you’d put fish in there and then you would. You could pump water through it at a given velocity. You measured fish swimming speed in body Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 12   �lengths per second. And you would swim them at a given body lengths per second for a given time and find out what the. Then you could measure. A lot of times they would simply start to drop out of the picture, because they couldn’t hold. They could hold for awhile and then they’d get tired. And you couldn’t tell whether they were sweating or not. Hard to do with a fish you know. But anyway so then you measure how long it took them to fatigue and then, and then how long they could. You would have to let them rest and put them in it again. But in the streams they don’t always have a choice. So but that all became part of what you had to evaluate in order to evaluate what the quality of the fish was. ET: And was this work applied throughout Utah. Or mostly up here in the North RG: No it was. But that was the thing. My program was basically state-wide. And it was the only program. So they were beginning to pretty much do what I wanted them to do. BC: Was it a program just for the state hatcheries, or does it cover the commercial hatcheries? RG: No, the commercial. We started doing it for the commercial hatcheries later. They were hard to work with. I had a long history with White’s Trout Farm out there. [Speaking to Brad Cole] Your neighbor [at White’s Trout Farm]. Clark White had , Grant’s dad or uncle was the first one. But they’ve had meat and stuff for a long time. So there’s nothing grosser than that, a big old plop and it’d float out then [?] and then the fish just coming roaring in there to eat. ET: Really. I had no idea. So now at this point did you ever get your Ph.D.? RG: Nope. I never [did]. No. In there when I was. That’s why I came back. That was one of the reasons I came back here. But while in that time I got par planitis in my eye. They didn’t know what it was for quite a while. ET: What was it called? RG: Par planitis is a part of the eye. And it was a sterile inflammation; wasn’t a microbe. And they worked on that for quite a while. Keith Gates was my eye doctor; it took him quite a while to diagnose it. And he finally said. Discovered that in England where they have socialized medicine they keep a lot of these records in one database you know. And he said. “A hundred percent of the par planitis sufferers were smokers.” And I smoked then. And that was good enough for me you know. That didn’t mean that everybody that smoked couldn’t get par planitis. But everyone that had par planitis was a smoker. And I told him, well that could just be because of you know, that always changes things with the smokers. They get vassal construction and that sort of thing. So I quit that. But it did a lot of, a fair amount of damage and I was on steroids for about two years: Prednizone. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 13   �And I backed off. I asked him what I was facing. And I said I don’t quite understand now what route to take in my career. It looked like I probably was going to loose the sight in that eye. And he advised me to just, it might be well to look for more administration. And that wasn’t what I wanted to do. But I dropped; I basically just gave up on the. I just decided I had some things I wanted to finish while I still had enough eye to do it. And I dropped the Ph.D. program. And still did a lot of work on it. And the funny part is I had, I already had the class work and I had taken the comps. I just, I just had still a fair amount of work to do on the research. And then it probably wasn’t smart to drop the thing when I was already, had two legs on you know. But I’ve never regretted. It never did, never made too much difference to me. I just kept. I’ve always kept. I still even now, and it’s been. I’ve been retired for eight years now. And I still read like I did when I hadn’t retired yet you know. I keep up with the professional stuff because that’s where my interests always were. I don’t ever read. Lisa [wife] can’t understand that because I’d be laying there reading. She thinks I’m reading a novel and I’m reading up on the history of western thought. She says, “You mean like west. Like Box Elder?” BC: Is there any? RG: There’s no thought over there. They haven’t got that far yet. But I’ve always been. I’ve loved information. I’ve just never been much of a novel reader. But I’ll read Garret Harden’s Tragedy Commons or something like that. And I love that stuff so. DISC Two RG: But the quality control is so important; and that all is brought into play. But what I was trying to point out was we had to develop all these other things before we did. First you had to know how to even measure the quality. We worked that out with the. We set up quite a physiology lab up there. But that was where my big interest was: measuring stress and quantifying stress you know. And measuring the same things you do in people; the same steroids and so forth. And define what the stress is and therefore help you define which were the stressors. A stress is a response and a stressor is what causes the response. So stress is good. The actual response that’s one of your ways your body has of keeping up. It’s when it has to do it too long why then it goes to distress and maladaption rather than adapting. And so then I worked up a system for quantifying that and quantifying health. I hated when we started to do the inspections for the diseases and the certification. We killed a lot of fish then just to take just to do the surveys. And I hated just coming up just whether they had these diseases or not. I wanted, if we’re gonna kill them let’s get some information out of them. And so that’s what. And so I developed what they call the HCP: the Health Condition Profile. And that’s the one I taught. That really caught on finally. I published that in the American Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 14   �Fisheries Society. And that come on. That’s the one I got, people were asking me to teach that all over the country and in Canada and in Mexico. ET: RG: So some of the work you did helped changed policies at the state and national level Yea, very much so. And I was always a member of the fisheries staff down in Salt Lake. Went to all the staff meetings and I always had a heavy impact on what they did and the directions they took. And so I knew also what the frustrations were with the legislature and a lot of times I would have to do battle with them. They didn’t. That never bothered me too much. There were a lot of times when I couldn’t come down and couldn’t make it to the staff meeting in Salt Lake. And they’d do something they knew I wasn’t going to agree with. And then they’d have to draw straws to see who had to tell me it. The secretary followed me out into the parking lot one time up there and she said, “Wait I got most of your comments, but how do you spell sucks.” You know. So the thing is that the Colorado River Wildlife Counsel asked in 1967. They asked for me to come up with some idea on. I accused them of dangling fish and that was the term. I got Harvey Willoughby going on that. I said, “You’re into fish dangling that’s what you’re doing.” And he says, “What do you mean?” And I said, “You call and say, we got IPN do you want them. Do you still want the fish? We’ve got IPN virus.” And I knew a lot of people who were really in sorry need of the fish. They’d go ahead and take them anyway. Even though they were, they carried this virus. And I said, “No.” I said, “I’m just telling you, you’re dangling the fish.” I said, “Look you can have these.” And so they actually asked me to come up with some kind of a way to how do we approach fish dangling. There were seven states in the Colorado Wildlife Council: the seven states on the Colorado. I was so involved this is hard for me to put this all in one dimension like that. But I started. It took me three years actually. I came up with the first meeting I had with them after we talked about the need to do something about this. Then I told them what I thought was going on and I wanted to, I said, “We need to start looking for this stuff. And I found out that the ones that were fighting it. I finally realized that they were afraid they already had these things, and what happens then. And I told them, “Just don’t bury the horse until you know he’s dead,” you know. “Let’s see where we are with this thing. We’ll do a survey.” We had a list of diseases; I put that together. And so they said, they appointed the Colorado River Wildlife Council fish disease committee. And we worked. And that was composed by design, one fish, federal pathologist, one state pathologist, one state fisheries manager and one state fisheries administrator. So that we got all those elements to argue it out before hand in committee and then go talk to the larger technical committee and then the council itself. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 15   �And boy I had a real round. The first meeting then, it was in Paige, Arizona. And I really got into it with them over there in that. They used parliamentary trickery to get the floor away from me you know. And they asked if they could ask a question so they gave the floor up. I gave the floor up so they could ask this questions. And then they wouldn’t give the floor back to me. And I blew my cork, you know. And I told them, “My God, you’re gonna listen.” And they says, “Well.” They said, “We got to study this thing.” And I said, “It’s only . . . this isn’t the communist manifesto. It’s a three-page policy.” And I said, “I assumed, I guess I was misinformed. I assumed everybody could read. Everybody that comes to this meeting can read. And I really got nasty with them. And they finally agreed to read it and we come in the next day and they passed it. Now as far as that committee was concerned, and then that goes on back to each of the seven states and they decide whether they’re going to. They all have to ratify what the policy that we had developed. BC: And what was the policy exactly? RG: The policy was that basically you couldn’t, wouldn’t be able to introduce fish into the Colorado River drainage unless they’d been inspected and certified by somebody. Which they really sadly needed. They all had their own kinds of statutes. So this was the policy, they would use their statutes however they had them set up in order to comply with that policy. ET: So did this have to be accepted by legislators, or just through . . . RG: No they could do it. Well some of them did it through the legislature but some of them already were. Like Utah was enabled. We had already been enabled by the legislature to write rules. ET: So this just went to the Fish and Wildlife Service then? Or the Fish and Wildlife Department. BC: Division ET: Division. Whatever it is at the state level? RG: Well the fish. Oh at the state level. Yea. ET: That’s what you’re talking about. RG: Yea, each of the local. That’s what the council was. The council didn’t have the Fish and Wildlife Service. It only had the states. And they all agreed. They just didn’t they didn’t know how to approach it. And that’s what I had to do. But at this time, at this time we found out that the. Well I found out that we didn’t have standard methods. So if you’re going to inspect and have. You got to have some kind of standard methods and people acceptable to use them. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 16   �ET: Now when are we talking about? When did this happen? RG: This was [19]67. It took me ‘67, ‘68 let’s see. No ‘67 was when I did it for Utah. ‘69 I did it for. I was asked to go to Colorado River Wildlife Council and then that took basically it took then through ’70; let’s see ‘68, ‘70. Yea it took me two years to get it all set up so that they would all take. And we finally passed it and it went into effect in [19]73. And from ‘73, I was on the committee for nearly 20 years. And we basically met every year and we would, we had forms they had to fill: had inspection forms that had to have standard methods in order. And people that were on our list as acceptable to do the inspection. And we had to put that all together. And then we would meet periodically to fine-tune the thing if we had problems. But it worked well. ET: Is the Logan River part of that drainage? RG: No ET: It doesn’t ago into the Colorado River does it? RG: No but the states all, what the states all did that was just [like what] that council. The states all passed it for their whole state. So that once we did that then it was the same for the Logan River and the Bear River and as it was. This is all the Great Basin here so. And the Colorado River is. Well a lot, a lot of, about half the states in the Colorado River drainage. And it’s the same way with the upper Colorado States: Idaho, Colorado and Utah kind of sit at the top of the drainage. But it was difficult because we did. And then also all this time I was also working with the American Fisheries Society. And I set up Jim Warren. We started to work on the disciplines in sections. We were trying to create a fish health section. American Fisheries Society was geographic, you know. You had a western division, a central and so on. And the states each would have a section, chapter in those divisions. But there was nothing for the disciplines. And the disciplines were too dilute. And so Jim and I worked/did the changes in the constitution of the American National, American Fisheries Society that set up the formation of discipline sections. And then when that passed, we became the first discipline section to form under that. And so we had the fish health section of the American Fisheries Society. And then fly fish culture and pollution and so forth. All these started to form. And then part of our mission was to police our ranks and to come up with standard methods. And, so we had technical procedures committees and all that stuff, you know, and certification board. And they had an unassembled exam kind of thing. What their criteria, their education and their experience. And they had to meet criteria in order to be considered a certified inspector. And this was all part of the. So, but I actually had done this for the most part before we ever got to, before they ever got to that; Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 17   �because I’d done it through the council. And when it passed the council, Colorado River Wildlife Council, it really was quite a stir because that’s the first regulations in the country. And the Great Lakes Commission filed suit. They called and they wanted some information. This was all of the states on the Great Lakes and Canada. And everybody that was on the great lakes. And so they used the Great Lakes Commission and did something very similar with little odd and end differences depending on geography and so forth. But it was the same thing; each state [province] in Canada ratifying a policy. And then the eastern seaboard states followed suit and then finally the Columbia [River]: the Columbia drainage. And so within about four years we had the biggest. We had basically the trout and salmon of North America covered. ET: Wow RG: All starting from this. For all purposes I started what they call the drainage concept of fish disease control. And so drainages mean a lot to me you know. When I was taking a test after my accident, in the LDS hospital they were giving me these little tests to find out if I was with it or not; or how I was doing. And they wanted me to name the capitals of the states. And I just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom all the way down. And she says, “How do you do that?” Lisa said too. She thought there’s got to be a mistake there. And I said, “No.” I said, "I know where the drainages are. That was so much a part of who was doing what, where and when that I never even had to think about it.” I said, boom, boom, boom. I knew what rivers they were on there, what the drainages were and where the capitals were. ET: So basically it sounds like once you got the Colorado River Wildlife Council to read your proposal RG: Yea ET: They got right on board with it. RG: Yea ET: So you didn’t have to fight that battle that much once they read it. RG: No. I set up a. You say you’ve got this centered more around the tape. I’ve got a copy of [the] resolution, very first; a resolution for their consideration. And why we should be looking at this, you know. And they bought that. They approved that one, that finding in ‘72. ET: Because there weren’t any political enemies of this policy? RG: No. There was more fear. They really were. That was serious business if they had to close hatcheries, because it meant destroying the fish. You might have to Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 18   �destroy 100,000 pounds of fish. And so, Nevada was hard. And Nevada said you can’t close. Willow Beach had IPN virus: that big national hatchery down there by Lake Mohave. I remember well we had a big knock-down drag out over that too. And I said, “If we close Willow Beach we’re not going to have fish for a season, for a whole season, which hurts. You know licensing and that type of thing. And so I said to them “Well so handle it. Handle it.” But I told them, “No I think what I would like to do then, if that’s the case. Is that the only reason you’re not going for this.” And they said, “Yea, we simply can’t. We can’t handle destroying that many fish because we won’t have fish to satisfy our program.” And I said, “If most of these programs are like ours, they’ve got surplus fish. And so let’s talk to all of these seven states and they’ll, see if we can get enough surplus fish out of all of those states to cover your needs for the loss of Willow Beach.” And that’s what we did. So it’s all having a heavy impact on Utah too. And you know we destroyed for IPN we destroyed the Kamas Hatchery and destroyed the fish: disinfected. You have to disinfect it with chlorine. You know and start over. And we did it with Springville; we did it with Logan hatchery here and the one at Loa. But [we] didn’t have to do them all in the same year. ET: So did that result in wiping out IPN? RG: Yea, never got it back again. And I had also been pushing for fish quality so hard and measuring stress that I started selling the idea that it’s a game of inches. I call it incremental degradation. Colorado says, “We call that incremental aggravation.” And I said, “How about incremental defecation.” And we was teaching that if the fish, the hatchery is properly managed, properly loaded and the fish are properly handled, you’re not going to have these diseases. Even if you have them, it won’t be too serious. We just can’t afford to have them go with that disease out where the wild fish are going to get clobbered. Let’s see I retired in 2000. Yea it was 2000. Then we had, we used to feed a lot of antibiotics you know on a grand scale. And after I started that we did the bacterial diseases and so forth. We hadn’t since 1972. Since from ‘72 to 2000 we only used antibiotics twice in that whole, that whole period. Because it was a proper approach and disciplined approach to the raising of fish that made the difference. And then when they finally, the FDA started passing laws that said you couldn’t use these drugs: antibiotics. Or you couldn’t use the stuff even to just clean the gills up you know. And I said, “I don’t.” Boy they were afraid to drop some of that stuff. And I said, “I don’t think you’re going to have, just keep doing what you’re doing and you won’t have, you’re going to have a very minor problem.” And that’s what they did. . . . But it was, we just never let up on the game of that business you know; you can’t. And then when I went to work. When Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 19   �I retired, Colorado asked me to come and talk to them. They had a problem with their fisheries managers were not agreeing with, particularly whirling disease. And I wasn’t working for Utah anymore. Eddy Coachman, who was their Chief of Fisheries; I had never been on his Christmas card list. We were kind of enemies. Because I’d never agree to what Eddy was doing. Anyway he’s the one that asked me to come and talk to them, which made me suspicious; probably going to hang me or something. But they paid the way, so I agreed to go. And for three days I fielded questions from them. Eddy just says, “I’m gonna let you handle this.” He says, “I’m, I have nothing left to say to them.” So I fielded a lot of really tough questions. That’s when they said the incremental aggravation. Anyway I told them, “You guys, you’re losing track of what, of what you’re all about.” And I told them. And I still. And I gave this lecture to Utah a number of times too. But I said, “We have, our mandate is to be stewards of the natural resource. Agriculture mandate is to be stewards of commodity. Production of commodity, they’re not always happy playmates.” And I said, “What makes it tough for us in this business, for the state fisheries programs, is that when you. A lot of ours is pure recreation. The rainbow trout and stuff that we plant, that’s in a sense it’s a commodity; because we’re selling our licenses and so forth.” But I said, “The rest of the part, the wild cut throat and all of this stuff. All of the [?] the least chubs and the humpback suckers and stuff like that in the Colorado.” I said, “That’s stewardship. And they hadn’t thought about that.” And I said, “You can, you can. The further you get away from stewardship. Over here with the rainbow, we can. There are a lot of things we can do with the rainbow. We can put them back. But over here you can’t go out and kill out all the cut throat because some of them are endangered species, you know. And in fact you couldn’t even if you wanted to.” And they had not thought about that so. I had sold all that to Utah years ago. And you’ve got, you’ve got to be concerned. The rainbow we can do something anytime. It would be costly but we can do it. But over here you’ve got these wild cut throat and there’s nothing we can do. And so that’s it. You know. ET: So your approach with the wild fish is habitat RG: Habitat, yea. Habitat and making sure that if there are any fish. I also classified all the streams in the state. And I had help from the managers to do that. And they gave them how I wanted them ranked you know. So that would go in our computer database so if this says you’re gonna plant more rainbow trout in Gunnison Lake and that’s not supposed to be there, the computer will flag that. And, so we don’t run the risk of just inadvertently putting them where we shouldn’t. And that had all become part of the operation. And so I say it’s hard because what we did had an impact on the whole state and all of the fisheries. And when we started to decide, when we wanted to say when we discovered. We didn’t know. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 20   �When I first got here our ideas of a cut throat trout were relatively primitive including mine. No mine, yea mine were pretty primitive too. It’s nice to be primitive every once in a while. But anyway a cut throat was a cut throat was a cut throat trout you know. We knew. We knew about the Colorado River Cut Throat and the Bonneville Cut Throat and Bear Lake Cut Throat and so forth. But we didn’t treat it that way. We were getting eggs out of the Yellowstone Lake. Finding a lot of Yellowstone cut throats and then we would take a few locally. But we weren’t managing that way. And then we discovered, we found a pure strain of Bonneville cut throats in Trout Creek or in Deep Creek mountains on the, like on the Nevada border. And then we were convinced they were pure, pure Bonneville cut throat. And this point we started analyzing all the DNA and all that other stuff so we could actually identify the Bear Lake cut throat is actually a Bonneville cut throat. And that all is because this was, this was Lake Bonneville. And over on the other side, it’s the Colorado River cut throat. The Colorado cut throat they call it. And, but, so we had done so much damage through bad management and so forth. And so the certification law added a whole new wrinkle. And so if I wanted to put, I wanted to reclaim cut throat water through like . . . And we got a lot of streams like that. Where the cut throat, the cut throat are. There were cut throat up in the, really high waters. And … but you couldn’t put anything up there. You want to start it again. Get cut throat up there. But it’s got to be the right cut throat going to the. And it’s got to be a Bonneville cut throat going into Bonneville cut throat water. And then we had management populations and also recreation populations. You had to . . . that was part of the management. You often didn’t even allow fishing. But you would use that as a source to get some of the other stuff started in another place. But you had to have that all certified, those populations. And it took a couple of years to certify a population. And we would do that here. We would certify the populations. And then they were free to take eggs or fish. Usually they would take eggs. And then move them to another drainage and let them hatch in another whatever other stream. And, so that all became part of a kind of a routine operation. And we’ve, we kept the Bonneville’s off just recently, off the rare endangered species. They were, they wanted to list them as endangered species which would have: we could kiss the management good bye then. Because then you can’t do anything. But, that all becomes part and parcel of that whole. And then the system that HCP: Health Condition Profile system. That’s probably the one that I, that I’m best known for is the Health Condition Profile. And we just call it HCP. But I used to call it autopsies. And then I found out that’s not what I was doing. Did you know that? ET: Necropsies. RG: Do you know why? ET: No Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 21   �RG: An autopsy is of your own species. ET: Oh RG: So fish don’t autopsy themselves. So a human can autopsy another human; that’s an autopsy. But it is necropsy. And I told them, “But fish don’t have necks. We’ll call it necropsy.” Well they don’t have knees either. But and then I started that and that’s. When I quit or retired I had around about a thousand of them done in the state and I kept track of both the hatchery ones and the wild ones. ET: So the HCP was done on a dead fish RG: Yea. You would. EG: Okay RG: Yea. What it is. In an infinite population, more or less, a big population I would have to have 20 fish. But I could, I could take from the 20 fish and say especially if they were the same year class. I could take and I can tell what’s wrong, the condition of the whole water with those 20 fish statistically. And I had, I had done the program. I’ve got a book out on it. And I wrote and designed a computer program for it. So you entered your data and it would calculate it and then type the report form. ET: Wow RG: And so I taught that. And just, just everyone, they’re still using it. I thought probably that it would disappear. But Lisa and I went through the lab in Seattle, that big fisheries center they got up there. I know a lot of those people. And they introduced me as we were going. The gal was doing some work with one of the. And they introduced me and she says. She’s calling it the Goede index. And I said, “You didn’t get that from me.” It supposed to be the Health Condition Profile. And that’s, apparently that’s what they’re starting to call it: the Goede index. And now whether it’s a big research project or what, it’s just one of their tools. Even if you look at one fish, if you catch it up at White Pine, you can open that fish and you can get some idea where he fits in this scheme. You know, whether it’s something you should be worried about. And so, but I have people tell me that I was the chief source of mortality in the states too. I sweep down there in the north and kill all the first born and things like that once a year. ET: So I want to know if you have been inducted into the Fish Culture Hall of Fame. RG: Nope, not yet. One thing you have to do there is get someone to ET: Nominate ya. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 22   �RG: Nominate you. I was surprised when I got in the Sneszko Award because it’s kind of the same kind of thing but for pathologist. You know. BC: I met a guy in Flagstaff that nominated himself for a Pulitzer Prize. RG: Well someone’s got to do it. ET: We’re not going to have much time left on our card I think. Doesn’t this last about an hour and a half on the high. BC: I don’t if you’re on the high end or not. RG: Is there anything that you wanted me to concentrate on. ET: You’re doing great. BC: We might have to do another session sometime. RG: There’s just so much. BC: I was sort of curious about. Tell us a little bit about Bill Sigler. RG: Okay. Well you’ve got the Mossback book. [Mossbacks by Ron Goede and Lisa Duskin-Goede: Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections & Archives: 925 G551] ET: Well I was going to ask you. Has Lisa. Has Lisa done the Mossback’s work. Has she, did she interview all the guys. RG: She interviewed them, yea. And she helped; she didn’t finish that whole study. (That was one of those things that, what was her name? Kathy Pearcy (was it Pearcy) in Humanities or something—for someone else. [Lisa] was doing that when she was doing gerontology and all that stuff. She thought that would be a good Ph.D. program.) ET: Well just briefly maybe you ought to mention who the Mossback’s are since we brought it up. RG: Okay. But, you have, we gave you a copy of . . . BC: Yea, I have a copy of that. ET: Just mention who are the Mossbacks. RG: Okay. The Mossback’s were: it’s a little hard to define because it started informally, you know, when Bill Sigler retired in 1974. And he was bummed out Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 23   �about retiring he didn’t like that. And, so we had a kind of a get-together. A lot of his old students got together and had a little seminar: a little symposium. Anyway that didn’t start the Mossbacks, but it got them talking about it. Well these guys are all, they were. The mossbacks were originally were old Bill Sigler’s, older students. And Sigler came out of the, retired from the war, WWII. These guys were mostly GI’s and most of them out of WW II on the GI Bill; a lot of them combat veterans. And that was a little different, not your average college freshman, these guys. A lot of them had things they still won’t talk about. So anyway, we decided to get together. About three years in a row we got together and then we just decided that you had to be in this business for a while before you got to do this. And we call them mossbacks. Because you have to be there long enough until you’ve got moss on your back. And but they’re, they’re all over. They’re not just Utah though. They’re all, most of them, are from within reasonable [distances], like Fort Collins. McConnell was from Fort Collins. He got that second Ph.D. Bill McConnell he taught at Colorado State until he retired. Bob Behnke wrote the book; this new book on trout and salmon of the world: great book. And Jay Udy is in his 90s now. And he was in mapping before the war effort: cartography and that sort of thing. Stacy Gebhards, he was here and he’s got a number of good books out. He was a good biology and he was Chief of Fisheries for a while for Idaho. He’s written a book called Wild Thing: [backcountry tales and trails] it’s about his career. He took Arthur Godfrey. There were three: Arthur Godfrey, Walter Hickel and there was one other. He took them all on a float trip down the Salmon River. I was kidding him. You know, Hickel was the one that said you can’t let nature run wild. ET: Wasn’t he Interior Secretary? RG: Yea ET: Yea RG: He was Governor of Alaska too. ET: Alaska RG: Anyway. So anyway these guys, Fred Eiserman. Fred was just inducted into the Wyoming Hall of Fame, along with Jim Bridger. I’m going wow! You’re, that’s, isn’t he a little older than you. I said, “I don’t think I’ve met him. He is a mossback?” No I’m serious. It’s in the, I’ve got the magazine and they had a big ceremony. It’s a serious award. There were four people that were inducted. It’s the Wildlife Hall of Fame or something. It’s not a Fish and Game type of thing, but Wilderness Hall of Fame. And Fred got his degree here. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 24   �ET: Fred? RG: Fred Eiserman and he worked for Wyoming. But Wylie is a good friend of mine and he’s the youngest one. And Stew Clark just died. Eight of them are gone now. So that’s one of the problems with this kind of a group. So we have every year when one of them drops out, we have a toast. And break the glass you know. The first year, well Sigler was still alive when Bud Phelps died. We threw the glass. We decided to throw, just throw them in. Let’s do just like they do in the movies and we’ll throw the glass in the fireplace. But I found out only about half of them could hit it. We had glass everywhere, boy. It took us about an hour to clean up all the glass. So we started putting a rock in a garbage can and we’d throw them in the garbage can then finally. But there is Al Regenthal: he is about 87 now. No he’s older than that. Anyway, most of them are up there. And, I basically, when I wrote the little prologue that I pointed out that we: one thing that occurred to us as we were doing all this. And of course I was a part of that from the beginning. But these guys were the vanguard of a very young profession. They were the first ones out there actually doing some science and not just empirical wisdom. And it was kind of interesting. They were born in the depression, tempered by war. And it was serious. Some of them had some pretty tough times. So and they went into school probably couldn’t have done that if it hadn’t have been for the GI Bill. Regenthal and Essbach and McConnell all came out here together from New Jersey. And Raganthall’s still with Utah, Arizona. Essbach went to Arizona, working for their fish and game. And McConnell was at Colorado State teaching. And McConnell just died. ET: So it sounds like your career kind of, and theirs spans the transition from folk wisdom to scientific-based. Scientifically-based RG: Yea. That’s probably a good one. I haven’t used that, that’s probably a good term. I always called it empirical wisdom. You know. Just because it, a lot of it was empirical it wasn’t scientific. But a lot of it was good stuff. And a lot of the early stuff before those guys was just terrible. And it was, if it was wet it was a quality fish. So but that’s when you carp and everything else you know. So, it’s pretty important I think. But their level, I think we were good for the, our effort was good for . . . . And I’ve been told that several times by people who’ve retired since. That he felt that, that our effort through the experiment station and so forth elevated the fisheries and brought it to a different plane. And it’s hard. They didn’t have good hatchery people. I was their technical advisory because I was coming up with all the new stuff. But they had Chief of Hatcheries too, but the guys didn’t know anything. And they were regional. And this was a big thing that I changed. They were, each region like the northern region in Ogden, would have somebody. Their Chief, their fisheries manager would be in charge of the hatchery. It was a line staff organization. And I told them. I said, “These guys don’t know anything about culture.” Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 25   �So I wrote a fairly involved definition of culture. And told, let’s see Bill Geer got to be Director at that particular time, Bill Geer was director. And I told him, “We would like to, I would like to see you centralize the hatchery; because they’ve got to be working for someone who actually understands hatcheries.” And so the rest of the organization is still strictly line staff. But the hatcheries were centralized. And then there was a Chief of Hatcheries in a Salt Lake office who came out of the culture scenario. And then I knew a world-class fish culturist, Joe Valentine, who was wanting out of the Fish and Wildlife Service. He already had 18 years with them. And so, I got them to hire him. He was willing to come. Joe started the work for them. And I liked Joe. And Joe and I got along really well. So that was a big help too. So we, we had a good staff. And I think Utah led the way on fish health management because nobody had that. That drainage concept really brought the thing to the range of possibility. We’d failed many times because there was just too many, you couldn’t draw something up for Utah that fit Florida, you know, because it’s just a whole different ballgame. In the southeast water, something they pump out of their basement. And here it’s the lynchpin of survival you know. So anyway it’s very important and I felt good about it and Sigler. I point that out in the Mossback book that one phrase he always used that I coined is: That it was a privilege to serve. And so I . . . . there’s just a few things that I get emotional about. And that’s where it was: a great bunch of people. And that’s not easy to maintain that level. I don’t know if they’re at that point anymore. ET: When you say it was a privilege to serve. That’s sort of an old-school approach to public service RG: Yea. ET: So you felt, you felt the weight. I’m asking I guess. You felt the weight of the public responsibility on your shoulders? RG: Yea, this was our mandate to steward the natural resource. And do a decent job of it. And a lot of the battles were just sheer ethics. You know. Yea, boy I had some tremendous . . . Boy I remember one big battle I had with them. I got up and left the meeting. And I still had to drive back to Logan. And I was furious. And I said “I’ve bent over backwards to do a lot for this outfit. But I[‘ll be] damned if I’m going to bend over forwards.” ET: And that was with whom? RG: With the fisheries staff. And then when, over whirling disease when the Leavitt’s were, when . . . that was, those were black days. ET: Yea, we haven’t even talked about whirling disease. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 26   �BC: Yea, we haven’t talked about whirling disease. RG: Oh wow. Well those were. That was the end of a lot of things. We got bad hurt on that: a lot of people lost their jobs. ET: Do we need to schedule another session? RG: Yea I think if you’re. Because now you’re ready to really get into some of those Things . . . There are some things there that are kind of funny too. And I even have, I got along with the Leavitt’s and then I didn’t get along with them you know. Dane Leavitt, the Governor’s brother [Mike Leavitt]. I like Dane. He’s a lawyer in Cedar [City, Utah]. BC: Did they ever try to sell insurance for the whirling disease or? RG: The Levitt Group. Yea, no. Mark who . . . they were always covering up for Mark. He was the one that was screwing things up. Young Mark. And he’s one of those guys that would always answer the phones in an important meeting and just sit there and talk. And that just really hacks me off when people do that. And so I called him, and I called his brother Dane in Cedar. Said, you know, “I said I want Mark’s phone number, cell phone number.” And he was suspicious right away because he knew I didn’t like Mark. And I told him what he was doing. And of course that even irritated Dane. And he like that so much he set it up. He decided. He had somebody call. I told him what I wanted is that we got a meeting on Thursday and I want someone to call Mark at that meeting and ask for me. And so that’s what they did. Dane set it up and Mark picked that phone up and he says, “Hello.” And then he says, “Oh.” He says, “Oh.” He says, “Here it’s for you.” Oh yea. I don’t know whether Mark ever found out that that was Dane. ET: Well let’s, why don’t we stop here. It looks like we need to talk about whirling disease, some of your ethical battles. You want to talk more about Bill Sigler? BC: I’d be curious to talk just about Logan and stuff and that. RG: Yea. ET: So we need to have another session with you I think. We don’t want to wear you out all in one. RG: Yea. ET: Are you doing okay? RG: Oh yea. It’s just that. When Eisner read that little bio sketch I did for the Mossback book he said. He said he could see. He said I could see reading that Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 27   �BC: that you had a calling. And it’s actually true. That idea of quality really was stuck in doing something. And I’ve always been very public service oriented, service oriented. I’m not interested in the other stuff. I don’t really care about the material stuff that goes along with it, because it usually doesn’t. But anyway it was so. It is hard to talk about that without setting that foundation. Yea. That’s good. ET: That was great. This has been a great session. BC: I’m afraid to turn this thing off that I’ll erase it or something. RG: You know when we joined, when we became the. Oh! When we became the Natural Resource, Department of Natural Resources and the Division of Wildlife Resources under the department, that was not a happy day either. You know. That was back in the ‘70s. Bud Phelps was Director then, and Phelps was a good friend. And the people, the guys, all the parks and forests, everyone became part of the . . . and there were, they shared a coffee room. It was the old DWR coffee room. But they said, Bud said, they were sniping at each other, always just under their breath. And Bud Phelps came out with a directive then that said, “They’ll be no sniping in the coffee rooms.” It was a directive. And so I went out in the hall with him and I said. “You know he used to have a wall committee. You couldn’t put anything on the wall unless it passed the wall committee.” BC: We had one of those in Flagstaff. RG: Oh hey. BC: The Classics committee is what they called it out there. RG: Well I told Bud. “Well you know now you’re gonna have to, now your gonna have to form a snide comment committee.” And he says, “What do you mean?” And I said, “Well someone’s gonna have to decide in whether a snide comment has in fact been made.” And he sat there and stared at me. And I said, See right now you’re wondering if I’ve made a snide comment. ET: That’s one of the things I like about you Ron, your sense of humor. RG: That’s the only thing that keeps you up and running. ET: Well, do you have a calendar available? Do you want to try and set up another appointment now or later? BC: I don’t have a calendar with me but I’m usually pretty open. ET: Let me grab mine. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  Ron Goede, 16 October 2008 28   � Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Where else is this found? Give the URL for the item, if it is in another respository (like CONTENTdm) <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/LoganCanyon/id/270">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/LoganCanyon/id/270</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Hosted by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Conversion Specs Recording equipment: Marantz PMD660 Digital Recorder Transcription equipment: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2012-11-12 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ronald William Goede interviews, 16 & 28 October 2008, and transcriptions Description An account of the resource In Ron Goede's first interview he talks about growing up in Nebraska, earning a bachelor's degree from the University of Nebraska, Lincoln, joining the Air National Guard in Nebraska, attending Utah State University to earn a Master's Degree in fisheries, and his work in various fisheries throughout the United States, especially in Utah at Utah State University. In his second interview Mr. Goede talks about his work as a fish pathologist in Utah, whirling disease in fish, water stewardship, politics: his fight to get good science into the Utah fisheries and water legislation. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Goede, Ronald William, 1934- Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Thatcher, Elaine Cole, Bradford R. Subject The topic of the resource Goede, Ronald William, 1934---Interviews Goede, Ronald William, 1934---Family Goede, Ronald William, 1934---Career in Fisheries Goede, Ronald William, 1934---Childhood and youth Fisheries sciences--Research--Utah--Logan River Fisheries sciences--Research--Missouri Goede, Ronald William, 1934---Friends and associates Willoughby, Harvey Morris, George Snieszko, Dennis Stanislas United States--Air National Guard Doctoral students--Utah--Logan Fishes--Diseases--Research--Utah Fishes--Quality--Research--Utah--Logan Fishes--Quality Fish hatcheries--Utah--Logan Fishery policy--Utah Colorado River Wildlife Council Fishery policy--United States American Fisheries Society. Fish Health Section Sigler, William F. Mossbacks (Club) Whirling disease--United States Whirling disease--Research--Utah Whirling disease--Research--West Virginia Utah. Division of Wildlife Resources Utah--Politics and government Fishery management--Utah Trout Unlimited Fishery research stations--Utah Fisheries--Utah--Monitoring Fishery scientists--Professional ethics Utah State Agricultural College. Wildlife Dept. Mentoring in education--Utah--Logan Student contests--Utah--Logan--Anecdotes Women in fisheries--Utah--Logan--History Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Oral history Interviews Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Nebraska Logan (Utah) Alaska Logan Canyon (Utah) Colorado River Lostine River (Idaho) Utah Colorado Kamas (Utah) Madison River (Wyo. and Mont.) Strawberry Reservoir (Utah) Scofield Reservoir (Utah) Utah United States Logan (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1950-1959 1960-1969 1970-1979 1980-1989 1990-1999 2000-2009 20th century 21st century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections & Archives, Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection, FOLK COLL 42 Box 2 Fd. 10 & Box 3 Fd. 1 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection can be found at: <a href="http://library.usu.edu/folklo/folkarchive/FolkColl42.php">http://library.usu.edu/folklo/folkarchive/FolkColl42.php</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Fife Folklore Archives Curator, phone (435) 797-3493 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FolkColl42bx2RonGoede Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 16 October 2008 28 October 2008 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2008-10-16 2008-10-28 Is Version Of A related resource of which the described resource is a version, edition, or adaptation. Changes in version imply substantive changes in content rather than differences in format. Logan Canyon Reflections https://highway89.org/files/original/e4cc18c408d866d65ef2c2d896546348.pdf a5538929e680eebbdf8a3dd88a8e17bd PDF Text Text Jul :i. <::\ (301 c:I 140 South 44th St. Apt.2A Philadelphia, PA 19104 r'1ar"ch 14 'J 1.987 Mr. Clifford Forsgren, Project Manager CH2M Hill! Salt Lake City Office P» 0 • B0 ~< 22 1 8 Salt Lake City, UT 84101 Before moving to Philadelphia last summer I lived in Logan for more than 6 years and have become very attached to the beauty and diverse recreational opportunities of Logan Canyon - a place of striking natural scenery only a five minute's drive away from my door step in Logan. As a planner and landscape architect I have become very concerned with the repeated efforts of the Utah Department of Transportation to widen portions of highway 89 which serves primarily recreation traffic to various destinations in the canyon and to Bear Lake. The enviromental impacts of road widening in a narrow canyon especially during the construction phase are tremendous, ranging from pollutants carried by increased runoff to complete rechanneling of the river severely altering flow patterns, stream velocity, the aquatic and the riparian life zones. However, I will not talk about the environmental effects here. I assume others who are more qualified will do so. Instead, I will talk about the scenic experience one has on Logan Canyon highway and how it will be affected by the proposed developments. Beautiful scenery can make driving an enjoyable experience. Especially when the road changes direction frequently allowing the driver to enjoy views from a number of different angles without having to take his eyes away fl'"om thE·? r-oc1.d. Speed of travel greatly influences what the driver can see. At high speeds only far away objects will be visible long enough to be noticed. A wide open valley is suited ver-y well for high speed tr-avel, because scenery at a distance of several miles~ such as mountain ranges~ will be visible long enough to make an impression on the driver. In a canyon the time allowed to enjoy a particular view greatly r-educed if travelling at the same high speeds. In the wider parts of Logan Canyon from Ricks Springs to Bear Lake summit a travel speed of 40-50 mph allows the driver to view a number of peaks and long valleys, such as Steam Mill Peak, Beaver Mtn. ~ Bunchgrass Canyon, and the Sinks. IS :I. �In the lower part of the canyon, from First Dam to Right Hand Fork? the road follows the river in wide arcs around dominant ridge lines that fade into light blues in the distance. Each ridge is the gate to a new segment of the canyon leaving the driver in constant anticipation of what lies ahead. The road in this part of the canyon has been widened in the past to allow for travel speeds up to 50 mph and it includes passing lanes. The general openess and width of the canyon can accomodate this speed as the driver still has sufficient time to enjoy the scenery. The canyon narrows down further after Right Hand Fork. Steep slopes on either side of the canyon reduce the field of vision substantially. Even at 25-30 mph one can only catch a glimpse of the splendid views, sometimes through the canopy of road side vegetation. It is this part of the canyon that offers the viewer the most dramatic limestone walls, wooded slopes, and the closest views of the river rapids through lush riparian vegetation. Most objects viewed are within 100 feet of the road. Passing by at speeds exceeding 30-35 mph would result in nothing more than a blurr and tunnel vision. It becomes evident that a widening of the road to allow for faster travel will only result in a diminished experience of the canyon's beauty. Logan Canyon highway need not become a high speed connection for travellers concerned only with how fast they can reach their point of destination. Interstate highways serve these needs far better. Tourists with tight schedules are better advised to use 1-15 and Rte 30 to travel to Grand Teton and Yellowstone National Parks. Logan Canyon j c a scenic attraction in itself. Along with the valley it may be one of the most memorable experiences for travellers who enjoy being away from the fast paced systems of transportation. Do we want to sacrifice the scenic experience of Logan Canyon for those who want to beat the lift lines at Beaver Mountain Ski area or those who race their motor boats up the canyon on their way to Bear Lake? Granted, some of the proposed improvements such as bridge replacement, turnoff lanes, parking areas off the highway, and signs warning of bicyclists would greatly reduce some of the problems experienced in the past. I support only some of the proposed actions in Plan B spot improvements. Left turning lanes at Tony Grove Lake and Beaver Mountain will greatly reduce the inherent conflict of fast moving vehicles, and vehicles waiting to make a left turn. Many recreational vehicles move slower than the average traffic resulting in long lines and sometimes dangerous passing maneuvers. These problems could be 2 �improved by providing turnoff lanes and requiring slower vehicles to make use of them. I strongly oppose a passing lane in the dugway section, even though it is the only feasible stretch of road for a passing lane in that part of the canyon. The extensive blasting and resulting destabilization of the above lying steep slopes will cause ongoing erosion problems for the road as well as add sediments to the river below. I feel that an approach, where each segment of road is studied as a separate problem by weighing the benefits of improvement against the degree of environmental impact~ responds much better to the unique areas of Logan Canyon. I urge you to reconsider some of the Plan B spot improvements proposed for Logan Canyon highway, to assess the real values of the canyon and the interests of those who enjoy its recreational and scenic qualities most. � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/14">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/14</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2013 Conversion Specs Scanned by Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library using Epson Expression 10000 scanner, at 800 dpi. Archival file is PDF (800 dpi), display file is JPEG2000. Checksum 2768298981 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 1553053 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from Julia Gold to Clifford Forsgren concerning the proposed changes to Logan Canyon Description An account of the resource Correspondence from Julia Gold to Clifford Forsgren of CH2M HILL concerning the proposed changes to the Logan Canyon Highway 89. She discusses the scenic experience of driving Logan Canyon and briefly mentions the environmental effects. Also suggests studying each segment of road separately and urges reconsideration of spot improvements proposed for the highway. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Gold, Julia Subject The topic of the resource Logan Canyon (Utah)--History Roadside Improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1987-03-14 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Logan Canyon (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1980-1989 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Sierra Club, Utah Chapter Archives, 1972-1986, COLL MSS 148 Series VIII Box 27 Folder 1 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. View the inventory for this collection at: <a href="http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv03390">http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv03390</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Libraries Photograph Curator, phone (435) 797-0890. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MSS148VIIIB27_Fd1_Page_9.pdf Highway 89; https://highway89.org/files/original/37363d7fb42497d29eb3484563159082.pdf c9dba06fc11125791929b6bed0f2414b PDF Text Text � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please contact the Utah State Archives History Research Center at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by : Utah State Archives and Records Service Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2014-10-16 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 812666 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from Henry Blood to E.E. Howe, July 29, 1936 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from Utah Governor Henry Blood to State Road Commission Chairman E.E. Howe concerning the diversion of forest highway funds allotted for construction of the road between Logan and Garden City to construction efforts along the Sevier-Summit-Glendale section of Highway 89. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Governor (1933-1941 : Blood) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Howe, E.E. Subject The topic of the resource Traffic engineering Roadside improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon Roadside improvement--Utah--Sevier Highway 89 Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1936-07-29 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Logan (Utah) Garden City (Utah) Glendale (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Rich County (Utah) Sevier County (Utah) Kane County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1930-1939 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State Archives and Records Service, State Agency Correspondence, Series 14207, Box 9, Folder 8 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Governor Blood State Agency Correspondence collection can be found at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Utah State Archives and Records Service Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the Utah State Archives, phone (801) 533-3535. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14207009008_EEHoweCorrespondence.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/81ffaead36a5dcffd498a1d2eea849e1.pdf 23c522720a815305c3176a2cdb2fd9d1 PDF Text Text � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please contact the Utah State Archives History Research Center at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by : Utah State Archives and Records Service Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2014-10-16 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 561207 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from Henry Blood to F.P. Champ, July 29, 1936 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from Utah Governor Henry Blood to F.P. Champ of the Cache Valley Banking Company, reiterating the Governor's interest in having the section of Highway 89 between Logan and Garden City completed early. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Governor (1933-1941 : Blood) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Champ, F.P. Subject The topic of the resource Traffic engineering Roadside improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon Highway 89 Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1936-07-29 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Logan (Utah) Garden City (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1930-1939 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State Archives and Records Service, State Agency Correspondence, Series 14207, Box 9, Folder 8 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Governor Blood State Agency Correspondence collection can be found at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Utah State Archives and Records Service Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the Utah State Archives, phone (801) 533-3535. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14207009008_LoganGardenCityHighway https://highway89.org/files/original/8a342c603093d514e6747f010b9283c4.pdf 60a87484999f9bb80c7959da0571eb4b PDF Text Text � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please contact the Utah State Archives History Research Center at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by : Utah State Archives and Records Service Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2014-10-16 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 588336 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from Henry Blood to Ernest R. Hill, May 11, 1938 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from Utah Governor Henry Blood to Richfield Lions Club Secretary, Ernest R. Hill concerning a Lions Club resolution that the State Road Commission address a hazardous curve on Highway 89 in Sevier County. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Governor (1933-1941 : Blood) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Hill, Ernest R. Hill Subject The topic of the resource Traffic engineering Roadside improvement--Utah--Central Highway 89 Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1938-05-11 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Richfield (Utah) Central (Utah) Sevier County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1930-1939 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State Archives and Records Service, State Agency Correspondence, Series 14207, Box 14, Folder 48 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Governor Blood State Agency Correspondence collection can be found at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Utah State Archives and Records Service Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the Utah State Archives, phone (801) 533-3535. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14207014048_HazardousCurve.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/084af431463544b34cc54f4990e2fc18.pdf f6465bf32d4c5e1f7de6b9c66fea1ab3 PDF Text Text � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please contact the Utah State Archives History Research Center at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by : Utah State Archives and Records Service Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2014-10-16 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 812123 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from Henry Blood to W.D. Hammond, September 24, 1938 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from Utah Governor Henry Blood to State Road Commission Chairman W.D. Hammond concerning a recent trip the governor made on Highway 89, his impressions of the road quality in southern Utah, and his commendation to the State Road Commission for the work they had done in improving Utah's roadways. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Governor (1933-1941 : Blood) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Hammond, W.D. Subject The topic of the resource Traffic engineering Roadside improvement--Utah--Escalante Highway 89 Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available 1938-09-24 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Escalante (Utah) Davis County (Utah) Weber County (Utah) Box Elder County (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Rich County (Utah) Garfield County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1930-1939 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State Archives and Records Service, State Agency Correspondence, Series 14207, Box 14, Folder 49 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Governor Blood State Agency Correspondence collection can be found at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Utah State Archives and Records Service Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the Utah State Archives, phone (801) 533-3535. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14207014049_HighwayMaintenance.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/3d0b2333cf007785ba80695c61570eea.pdf 05a04dfb1ae8678701f701da3956789b PDF Text Text �� Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please contact the Utah State Archives History Research Center at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by : Utah State Archives and Records Service Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2014-10-16 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 1057341 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from Members of the Thistle Civic Club to the State Road Commission, April 7, 1939 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from members of the Thistle Civic Club to the State Road Commission requesting that they be allowed to construct a road that would enter Highway 89 a half mile north of the historic viaduct at Thistle. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Governor (1933-1941 : Blood) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Thistle Civic Club State Road Commission Subject The topic of the resource Traffic engineering Roadside improvement--Utah--Thistle Highway 89 Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1939-04-07 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Thistle (Utah) Utah County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1930-1939 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State Archives and Records Service, State Agency Correspondence, Series 14207, Box 14, Folder 52 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Governor Blood State Agency Correspondence collection can be found at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Utah State Archives and Records Service Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the Utah State Archives, phone (801) 533-3535. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14207014052_ThistleCivicClub.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/c4c9d578dfe99fd41c69b85a53dfad74.pdf 3097f6558be8d3020d21625d332430b8 PDF Text Text ���� Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please contact the Utah State Archives History Research Center at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by : Utah State Archives and Records Service Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2014-10-16 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 1808314 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence between Henry Blood and G.A. London, January 1934 Description An account of the resource Correspondence between Utah Governor Henry Blood and Flagstaff Chamber of Commerce Secretary G.A. London concerning a resolution to build a trunk highway off of Highway 89, through the Navajo Nation, ending in Bluff, Utah. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Governor (1933-1941 : Blood) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource London, G.A. Subject The topic of the resource Traffic engineering Roadside improvement--Arizona--Navajo Nation Highway 89 Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1934-01-26 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Navajo Nation (Arizona) Flagstaff (Arizona) Coconino County (Arizona) Arizona Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1930-1939 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State Archives and Records Service, State Agency Correspondence, Series 14207, Box 3, Folder 41 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Governor Blood State Agency Correspondence collection can be found at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Utah State Archives and Records Service Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the Utah State Archives, phone (801) 533-3535. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14207003041_Flagstaff.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/5703591d89cdb25b37659d4290f6704f.pdf 98e35c1d07ae27b20f7d2c7602d4b940 PDF Text Text �� Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please contact the Utah State Archives History Research Center at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by : Utah State Archives and Records Service Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2014-10-16 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 877817 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from W.D. Rishel to K.C. Wright, May 4th 1935 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from Utah State Automobile Association Manager, W.D. Rishel to Utah State Highway Engineer, K.C. Wright advocating the association's position on how Highway 89 should be routed north of Spanish Fork, Utah. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Governor (1933-1941 : Blood) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Rishel, W.D. Wright, K.C. Subject The topic of the resource Traffic engineering Roadside improvement--Utah Highway 89 Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1935-05-04 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Spanish Fork (Utah) Utah County (Utah) Yellowstone National Park (Wyoming) Logan Canyon (Utah) Utah Wyoming Arizona Canada United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1930-1939 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State Archives and Records Service, State Agency Correspondence, Series 14207, Box 9, Folder 4 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Governor Blood State Agency Correspondence collection can be found at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Utah State Archives and Records Service Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the Utah State Archives, phone (801) 533-3535. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14207009004_UTAutoAssociation.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/68c8f87d2f59283503308745cca41214.pdf efeda0adcf29aaed17d6d0c97bd68e33 PDF Text Text �� Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please contact the Utah State Archives History Research Center at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by : Utah State Archives and Records Service Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2014-10-16 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 1089434 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from Henry Blood to Thomas H. MacDonald, March 28, 1936 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from Utah Governor Henry Blood to U.S. Bureau of Public Roads Chief, Thomas H. MacDonald concerning the construction of a road that would connect Cedar Breaks National Monument to the Long Valley Road section of Highway 89. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Governor (1933-1941 : Blood) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource MacDonald, Thomas H. Subject The topic of the resource Traffic engineering Roadside improvement--Utah--Long Valley Highway 89 Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1936-03-28 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Cedar Canyon (Utah) Long Valley Road (Utah) Iron County (Utah) Kane County (Utah) Cedar Breaks National Monument (Utah) Washington D.C. Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1930-1939 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State Archives and Records Service, State Agency Correspondence, Series 14207, Box 9, Folder 6 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Governor Blood State Agency Correspondence collection can be found at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Utah State Archives and Records Service Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the Utah State Archives, phone (801) 533-3535. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14207009006_CedarLongValleyRoad.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/b078863d76fa0dd62de34b0bb18feaaf.pdf 4d55e5619ec4a4728add025d5bb2fef3 PDF Text Text ��� Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please contact the Utah State Archives History Research Center at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/index.html</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by : Utah State Archives and Records Service Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2014-10-16 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 1931262 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondence from O.G. Cardon to Abe Murdock, July 27, 1936 Description An account of the resource Correspondence from Utah Roads Committee Representative, O.G. Cardon to Utah Congressman Abe Murdock concerning the state of Highway 89 in Logan Canyon, the Roads Committee's contention that money needed for Logan Canyon roads was needlessly diverted to work on southern Utah roads, and a desire that construction and oiling Highway 89 through Logan Canyon proceed as soon as possible. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Governor (1933-1941 : Blood) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Cardon, O.G. Hovey, M.R. Murdock, Abe Subject The topic of the resource Traffic engineering Roadside improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon Highway 89 Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1936-07-27 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Logan Canyon (Utah) Beaver (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Beaver County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1930-1939 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State Archives and Records Service, State Agency Correspondence, Series 14207, Box 9, Folder 6 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Governor Blood State Agency Correspondence collection can be found at: <a href="http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html">http://archives.utah.gov/research/inventories/14207.html</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Utah State Archives and Records Service Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the Utah State Archives, phone (801) 533-3535. Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 14207009006_LoganCanyon.pdf https://highway89.org/files/original/e06ac4b73b4879747a94b8803fe82416.pdf b16a4c26580326bc2d39242ccf837949 PDF Text Text PA RT N ERS: HANCEY ~ JONES ~ WRIGHT & CO. L) Blaine W. Hancey . CPA ( Retired) Gary D. Jones. CPA Ro bert L. Wrigh t. CPA Do uglas H. Swenson. CPA Paul D. Simkins. CPA P RO FESS IO NA LS: R . Leu Dell Tripp. C PA Carl J. La w. CPA John T. Barker, C PA M ichael C. Kidman, CPA Mark R. Mo ntgomery, CPA C ER TI FI ED P U BLI C ACCO UN T AN TS 95 West 100 Sou th . S uite tl200 . P.O . Box 747, Loga n. Uta h 8432 145 73 January 4, 1989 Municipal Council City of Logan 255 North Main Logan, Utah 84321 We have compiled the accompanying information from a telephone survey developed and conducted by Councilman Fred Duersch Jr. This compilation is 1 imited to presenting information that is the representation of Councilman Duersch. We have not audited or reviewed the accompanying information and, accordingly, do not express and opinion or any other form of assurance. The purpose of the survey was to determine voter attitudes regarding proposed modifications to the Logan Canyon Highway. The sample was taken from a 1 ist publ ished by Carr Printing of Logan City residents who voted in the 1987 elections. A systematic sample of 208 was taken from a population of 3,722. The sample represents approximately 6% of the population. Exh i bit 1 shows the quest ions used in the survey and the sample occurrence rate of aYes u and RNo n responses. It also shows the true occurrence rate for uNon answers in the tota l population based on a statistical evaluation. Exhibits 2 - 8 show information regarding respondents to the survey by gender, frequency in travel ing the canyon and the amount of time 1 iving in the county. #~"-v) ~" /UN !J i t~ . HANCEY , JONES, WRIGHT & CO. Certified Pub1 i c Accoun t ants \/ l'l1lh l' fI ()f (1/1' Prt\'ute CU fIl{JafH l' \ Pra('f/Ce S(' C f/IJI/ 11( (1/(' A lll erican I,I\(/{II( (' IJ(Ct'r(if/ec/ Pu nlt" . 4 (,(,() /II /f(JII/ I (801 ) 752 -1510 �EXHIBIT 1 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY WE ARE 95;'~ CONFIDENT THAT THE TRUE OCCURRENCE RATE FOR SAtv1PLE "NO" IS BETWEEN X OCCURREl'·JCE - Y PERCENT OF THE RATE TOTAL POPULATION QUESTIONS YES NO X;~ - Y% YOU IN FAVOR OF MODIFICATIONS OF SOME TYPE IN THE CANYON? 99;'~ 1% • 2~~ - 3/~ YOU IN FAVOR OF STRAIGHTENING SELECTED CURt..,'ES IN THE MIDDLE SECTION OF THE CANYON BETlJ..lEEN RIGHT HAND FORK AND RICKS SPRINGS? S9% 11 ~,~ 7'''.'. - 16;~; 9"'/ ~/. S' " /. 5% - 1 "'/ ~". 88% 12% S·,. /. - 17% 73% 2~" I/o 21;~ - 33;~ 55% 45;·': 38% - 5"-/ 3/~ 9 ..... ·" 1/. 94/~ - 99/~ 9;-..' . (.'. 3-" /. 1." /. - 6-" ". DO YOU BELIEVE MODIFYING THE HIGHWAY WILL CONTRIBUTE TO ECONOMIC DEl.) EL0 PM ENT IN CACHE, RICH, AND BEAR LAKE COUNTIES? 72;~ 28;': 22/: - 34% DO YOU BELl E,,'E HIGHWAY MODIFICATIONS CAN BE MADE WITHOUT: A. DESTROYING THE BEAUTY OF THE CANYON? B. CAUSING PERMANENT ENt..,' I RON~1 ENTAL DAMAGE? 95;~ 93;·': 5% 7% 3-/ ". 4'''". - 11 /~ ~RE ~RE ARE YOU IN FAt..,'OR OF SELECTED PASSING LANES? ~RE YOU IN FAVOR OF SCENIC TURNOUTS? YOU IN FAt..,'OR OF BETTER CAMPGROUND ACCESS AND EGRESS IN RELATION TO THE HIGHWAY? ~RE ~RE YOU IN FAt..,'OR OF CHANGING THE COURSE OF THE RIVER IF REQUIRED FOR HIGHWAY MODIFICATION? pO YOU FEEL EXI STING BRIDGES ARE SAFE FOR USE BY THE TRAIv'ELING PUBLIC? YOU IN FAVOR OF REPLACING EXISTING BRIDGES WITH WIDER BRIDGES? ~RE ~ ." . 9'/ .I. I DO YOU BELL EtJE THE PREVIOUSLY MODIFIED SECTION OF THE HIGHWAY BET'AlEEN FIRST DAM AND RIGHT HAND FORK IS: /-'4. AN I MPROVEi1ENT? B. ABOUT THE SAtv1E? c. WORSE I"JHEt-··J CO~'1PARED TO THE REST OF THE HI GHWAY'? 84i'~ 13/: . .-. .' W/. I I : I �EXHIBIT 2 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 60 PERCENT 50 40~--~ 30J.---~ 20 1------1: rmmmB FEMA LE 56% 101---~ ~MALE 44% o RESPONDENT BREAKDOWN �EXHIBIT 3 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 50 PERCENT 40 30~----------~~~ 20 t-------~ -FEMALE 10 11%,40%,5% ramaMALE 4%,30%,10% o SELDOM SOME OFTEN TRAVEL FREQUENCY BY RESPONDENTS �EXHIBIT 4 LOGAN CANYON HICHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t----Y.; 50~---t/ 25t----~ "i"'"A-----------tIOOBlUN:DER 5 YR 7% o 93% t.__~~~~~~III~a1I1L_--.Jrama OVI- R 5 RESPONDENTS BY TIME LIVING IN COUNTY YR �EXHIBIT 5 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75t-~ 50t--~ 25t--~ ~------------------------~mMMNO 10%, 1% [_~IIIIIIIIIIIL ol OVER 5 YRS ____~~~l-____~~~YES 83%,6% UNDER 5 YRS ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF STRAIGHTENING SELECTED CURVES ... ? �EXHIBIT 6 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t---~ 50 I-------r 25 t---~ ~------------------------~mMMNO 2%)1% rmaaYES 91%)6% OVER 5 YRS UNDER 5 YRS ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF REPLACING EXISTING BRIDCES WITH WIDER BRIDGES? �EXHIBIT 7 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t------Y. 50t-~ 25 t---+': ~------------------------~MAAMNO 4%) 1% ~YES 89%J6~ OVER 5 YRS Ut~DER 5 YRS CAN MODIFICATIONS BE .MADE WITHOUT DESTROYING THE BEAUTY OF THE CANYON? �LOGAN EXHIBIT 8 CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t--+: 501-----V- -WORSE -IN COMPARISON 251--~ ~--------------t-ABOUT T~ SAME ~ at _JIIIILIIIIIIIlI..__~~L_,,-_ _J~ OVER 5 YRS UNDER 5 YRS DO YOU BELIEVE THE PREVIOUSLY MODIFIED SECTION OF THE HIGHWAY .. DIS? AN IMPROVE -MENT � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/6">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/6</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2013 Conversion Specs Scanned by Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library using Epson Expression 10000 scanner, at 800 dpi. Archival file is PDF (800 dpi), display file is JPEG2000. Checksum 564613655 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 4859817 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Widening of Logan Canyon Highway Report Description An account of the resource A compilation, by Hancey, Jones, Wright & Co. Co., of information gathered from a telephone survey conducted by Councilman Fred Duersch Jr. Includes Exhibits 1 and 2 which show the results of the information in graphs and tables. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hancey, Jones, Wright & Company Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Duersch, Fred, Jr. Subject The topic of the resource United States Highway 89 Utah Logan (Utah) Logan Canyon (Utah) Roadside improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Administrative records Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Hancey, Jones, Wright &amp Company. Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1989-01-04 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Utah Logan (Utah) Cache County (Utah) United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1980-1989 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Senator John P. Holmgren papers, 1985-1989, COLL MSS 133 Box 45 Folder 8 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. View the inventory for this collection at: <a href="http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv07669">http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv07669</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Libraries Photograph Curator, phone (435) 797-0890. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MSS133Bx45_Item_8.pdf Highway 89; https://highway89.org/files/original/1b70bf9128c278938d4665453ceb6ddc.pdf b16a4c26580326bc2d39242ccf837949 PDF Text Text PA RT N ERS: HANCEY ~ JONES ~ WRIGHT & CO. L) Blaine W. Hancey . CPA ( Retired) Gary D. Jones. CPA Ro bert L. Wrigh t. CPA Do uglas H. Swenson. CPA Paul D. Simkins. CPA P RO FESS IO NA LS: R . Leu Dell Tripp. C PA Carl J. La w. CPA John T. Barker, C PA M ichael C. Kidman, CPA Mark R. Mo ntgomery, CPA C ER TI FI ED P U BLI C ACCO UN T AN TS 95 West 100 Sou th . S uite tl200 . P.O . Box 747, Loga n. Uta h 8432 145 73 January 4, 1989 Municipal Council City of Logan 255 North Main Logan, Utah 84321 We have compiled the accompanying information from a telephone survey developed and conducted by Councilman Fred Duersch Jr. This compilation is 1 imited to presenting information that is the representation of Councilman Duersch. We have not audited or reviewed the accompanying information and, accordingly, do not express and opinion or any other form of assurance. The purpose of the survey was to determine voter attitudes regarding proposed modifications to the Logan Canyon Highway. The sample was taken from a 1 ist publ ished by Carr Printing of Logan City residents who voted in the 1987 elections. A systematic sample of 208 was taken from a population of 3,722. The sample represents approximately 6% of the population. Exh i bit 1 shows the quest ions used in the survey and the sample occurrence rate of aYes u and RNo n responses. It also shows the true occurrence rate for uNon answers in the tota l population based on a statistical evaluation. Exhibits 2 - 8 show information regarding respondents to the survey by gender, frequency in travel ing the canyon and the amount of time 1 iving in the county. #~"-v) ~" /UN !J i t~ . HANCEY , JONES, WRIGHT & CO. Certified Pub1 i c Accoun t ants \/ l'l1lh l' fI ()f (1/1' Prt\'ute CU fIl{JafH l' \ Pra('f/Ce S(' C f/IJI/ 11( (1/(' A lll erican I,I\(/{II( (' IJ(Ct'r(if/ec/ Pu nlt" . 4 (,(,() /II /f(JII/ I (801 ) 752 -1510 �EXHIBIT 1 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY WE ARE 95;'~ CONFIDENT THAT THE TRUE OCCURRENCE RATE FOR SAtv1PLE "NO" IS BETWEEN X OCCURREl'·JCE - Y PERCENT OF THE RATE TOTAL POPULATION QUESTIONS YES NO X;~ - Y% YOU IN FAVOR OF MODIFICATIONS OF SOME TYPE IN THE CANYON? 99;'~ 1% • 2~~ - 3/~ YOU IN FAVOR OF STRAIGHTENING SELECTED CURt..,'ES IN THE MIDDLE SECTION OF THE CANYON BETlJ..lEEN RIGHT HAND FORK AND RICKS SPRINGS? S9% 11 ~,~ 7'''.'. - 16;~; 9"'/ ~/. S' " /. 5% - 1 "'/ ~". 88% 12% S·,. /. - 17% 73% 2~" I/o 21;~ - 33;~ 55% 45;·': 38% - 5"-/ 3/~ 9 ..... ·" 1/. 94/~ - 99/~ 9;-..' . (.'. 3-" /. 1." /. - 6-" ". DO YOU BELIEVE MODIFYING THE HIGHWAY WILL CONTRIBUTE TO ECONOMIC DEl.) EL0 PM ENT IN CACHE, RICH, AND BEAR LAKE COUNTIES? 72;~ 28;': 22/: - 34% DO YOU BELl E,,'E HIGHWAY MODIFICATIONS CAN BE MADE WITHOUT: A. DESTROYING THE BEAUTY OF THE CANYON? B. CAUSING PERMANENT ENt..,' I RON~1 ENTAL DAMAGE? 95;~ 93;·': 5% 7% 3-/ ". 4'''". - 11 /~ ~RE ~RE ARE YOU IN FAt..,'OR OF SELECTED PASSING LANES? ~RE YOU IN FAVOR OF SCENIC TURNOUTS? YOU IN FAt..,'OR OF BETTER CAMPGROUND ACCESS AND EGRESS IN RELATION TO THE HIGHWAY? ~RE ~RE YOU IN FAt..,'OR OF CHANGING THE COURSE OF THE RIVER IF REQUIRED FOR HIGHWAY MODIFICATION? pO YOU FEEL EXI STING BRIDGES ARE SAFE FOR USE BY THE TRAIv'ELING PUBLIC? YOU IN FAVOR OF REPLACING EXISTING BRIDGES WITH WIDER BRIDGES? ~RE ~ ." . 9'/ .I. I DO YOU BELL EtJE THE PREVIOUSLY MODIFIED SECTION OF THE HIGHWAY BET'AlEEN FIRST DAM AND RIGHT HAND FORK IS: /-'4. AN I MPROVEi1ENT? B. ABOUT THE SAtv1E? c. WORSE I"JHEt-··J CO~'1PARED TO THE REST OF THE HI GHWAY'? 84i'~ 13/: . .-. .' W/. I I : I �EXHIBIT 2 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 60 PERCENT 50 40~--~ 30J.---~ 20 1------1: rmmmB FEMA LE 56% 101---~ ~MALE 44% o RESPONDENT BREAKDOWN �EXHIBIT 3 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 50 PERCENT 40 30~----------~~~ 20 t-------~ -FEMALE 10 11%,40%,5% ramaMALE 4%,30%,10% o SELDOM SOME OFTEN TRAVEL FREQUENCY BY RESPONDENTS �EXHIBIT 4 LOGAN CANYON HICHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t----Y.; 50~---t/ 25t----~ "i"'"A-----------tIOOBlUN:DER 5 YR 7% o 93% t.__~~~~~~III~a1I1L_--.Jrama OVI- R 5 RESPONDENTS BY TIME LIVING IN COUNTY YR �EXHIBIT 5 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75t-~ 50t--~ 25t--~ ~------------------------~mMMNO 10%, 1% [_~IIIIIIIIIIIL ol OVER 5 YRS ____~~~l-____~~~YES 83%,6% UNDER 5 YRS ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF STRAIGHTENING SELECTED CURVES ... ? �EXHIBIT 6 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t---~ 50 I-------r 25 t---~ ~------------------------~mMMNO 2%)1% rmaaYES 91%)6% OVER 5 YRS UNDER 5 YRS ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF REPLACING EXISTING BRIDCES WITH WIDER BRIDGES? �EXHIBIT 7 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t------Y. 50t-~ 25 t---+': ~------------------------~MAAMNO 4%) 1% ~YES 89%J6~ OVER 5 YRS Ut~DER 5 YRS CAN MODIFICATIONS BE .MADE WITHOUT DESTROYING THE BEAUTY OF THE CANYON? �LOGAN EXHIBIT 8 CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t--+: 501-----V- -WORSE -IN COMPARISON 251--~ ~--------------t-ABOUT T~ SAME ~ at _JIIIILIIIIIIIlI..__~~L_,,-_ _J~ OVER 5 YRS UNDER 5 YRS DO YOU BELIEVE THE PREVIOUSLY MODIFIED SECTION OF THE HIGHWAY .. DIS? AN IMPROVE -MENT � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/6">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/6</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2013 Conversion Specs Scanned by Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library using Epson Expression 10000 scanner, at 800 dpi. Archival file is PDF (800 dpi), display file is JPEG2000. Checksum 564613655 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 4859817 Bytes Transcription Any written text transcribed from a sound PARTNERS: Blaine W. Hancey . CPA ( Retired) Gary D. Jones. CPA Robert L. Wrigh t. CPA Douglas H. Swenson. CPA Paul D. Simkins. CPA PROFESS IONALS: R. LeuDell Tripp. CPA Carl J. Law. CPA John T. Barker, CPA Michael C. Kidman, CPA Mark R. Montgomery, CPA January 4, 1989 Municipal Council City of Logan 255 North Main Logan, Utah 84321 L) HANCEY ~ JONES ~ WRIGHT & CO. CER TIFI ED PUBLIC ACCOUNTANTS 95 West 100 South . Suite 200 . P.O. Box 747, Logan. Utah 8432 14573 (801 ) 752-1510 We have compiled the accompanying information from a telephone survey developed and conducted by Councilman Fred Duersch Jr. This compilation is 1 imited to presenting information that is the representation of Councilman Duersch. We have not audited or reviewed the accompanying information and, accordingly, do not express and opinion or any other form of assurance. The purpose of the survey was to determine voter attitudes regarding proposed modifications to the Logan Canyon Highway. The sample was taken from a 1 ist publ ished by Carr Printing of Logan City residents who voted in the 1987 elections. A systematic sample of 208 was taken from a population of 3,722. The sample represents approximately 6% of the population. Exhibit 1 shows the quest ions used in the survey and the sample occurrence rate of aYes and No responses. It also shows the true occurrence rate for uNon answers in the tota l population based on a statistical evaluation. Exhibits 2 - 8 show information regarding respondents to the survey by gender, frequency in travel ing the canyon and the amount of time 1 iving in the county. HANCEY, JONES, WRIGHT & CO. Certified Public Accountants EXHIBIT 1 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY WE ARE 95% CONFIDENT THAT THE TRUE OCCURRENCE RATE FOR SAMPLE "NO" IS BETWEEN X OCCURRENCE - Y PERCENT OF THE RATE TOTAL POPULATION QUESTIONS YES NO X;~ - Y% ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF MODIFICATIONS OF SOME TYPE IN THE CANYON? 99;'~ 1% ‰Û¢ 2~~ - 3/~ ~RE YOU IN FAVOR OF STRAIGHTENING SELECTED CURt..,'ES IN THE MIDDLE SECTION OF THE CANYON BETlJ..lEEN RIGHT HAND FORK AND RICKS SPRINGS? S9% 11 ~,~ 7.''''.- - 16;~; ARE YOU IN FAt..,'OR OF SELECTED PASSING LANES? 9"'/ ~/. S/' ". 5% - 1 "'/ ~". ~RE YOU IN FAVOR OF SCENIC TURNOUTS? 88% 12% Såá,. /. - 17% ~RE YOU IN FAt..,'OR OF BETTER CAMPGROUND ACCESS AND EGRESS IN RELATION TO THE HIGHWAY? 73% 2~I"/o 21;~ - 33;~ ~RE YOU IN FAt..,'OR OF CHANGING THE COURSE OF THE RIVER IF REQUIRED FOR HIGHWAY MODIFICATION? 55% 45;åá': 38% - 5"-/ ~ ." . pO YOU FEEL EXI STING BRIDGES ARE SAFE FOR USE BY THE TRAIv'ELING PUBLIC? 3/~ 9 .1.... åá/". 94/~ - 99/~ ~RE YOU IN FAVOR OF REPLACING EXISTING BRIDGES WITH WIDER BRIDGES? 9. ;(-..'..' 3-/". 1./ ". - 6-"". DO YOU BELIEVE MODIFYING THE HIGHWAY WILL CONTRIBUTE TO ECONOMIC DEl.) E L 0 PM ENT IN CACHE, RICH, AND BEAR LAKE COUNTIES? 72;~ 28;': 22/: - 34% DO YOU BELl E,,'E HIGHWAY MODIFICATIONS CAN BE MADE WITHOUT: A. DESTROYING THE BEAUTY OF THE CANYON? 95;~ 5% 3"-/. - 9'/ .I. B. CAUSING PERMANENT ENt..,' I RO N~1 ENTAL DAMAGE? 93;åá': 7% 4"'''.- - 11 /~ I DO YOU BELL EtJE THE PREVIOUSLY MODIFIED SECTION OF THE HIGHWAY BET'AlEEN FIRST DAM AND RIGHT HAND FORK IS: /-'4. AN I MPROVEi1ENT? 84i'~ I B. ABOUT THE SAtv1E? 13/: c. WORSE I"JHEt-åáJ CO~'1PARED TO THE REST OF THE I HI GHWAY'? .-. .. ' : W/. I 60 PERCENT 50 40~--~ 30J.---~ 20 1------1: 101---~ o EXHIBIT 2 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY RESPONDENT BREAKDOWN rmmmB FEMA LE 56% ~MALE 44% EXHIBIT 3 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 50 PERCENT 40 30~----------~~~ 20 t-------~ 10 o SELDOM SOME OFTEN TRAVEL FREQUENCY BY RESPONDENTS -FEMALE 11%,40%,5% ramaMALE 4%,30%,10% EXHIBIT 4 LOGAN CANYON HICHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t----Y.; 50~---t/ 25t----~ "i"'"A-----------tIOOBlUN:DER 5 YR o 7% t. __~ ~~~~~III~a1I1L_--.Jrama OVI-R93 %5 YR RESPONDENTS BY TIME LIVING IN COUNTY EXHIBIT 5 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75t-~ 50t--~ 25t--~ ~------------------------~mMMNO 10%, 1% o[l_ ~IIIIIIIIIIIL ____ ~~~l-____ ~~~YE83S% ,6% OVER 5 YRS UNDER 5 YRS ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF STRAIGHTENING SELECTED CURVES ... ? EXHIBIT 6 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t---~ 50 I-------r 25 t---~ ~------------------------~mMMNO OVER 5 YRS UNDER 5 YRS ARE YOU IN FAVOR OF REPLACING EXISTING BRIDCES WITH WIDER BRIDGES? 2%)1% rmaaYES 91%)6% EXHIBIT 7 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t------Y. 50t-~ 25 t---+': ~------------------------~MAAMNO OVER 5 YRS Ut~DER 5 YRS CAN MODIFICATIONS BE .MADE WITHOUT DESTROYING THE BEAUTY OF THE CANYON? 4%) 1% ~YES 89%J6~ EXHIBIT 8 LOGAN CANYON HIGHWAY SURVEY 100 PERCENT 75 t--+: 501-----V- -WORSE -IN COMPARISON 251--~ ~--------------t-ABOUT T~ SAME a~t _ JIIIILIIIIIIIlI.. _ ~~L_,,-__J ~ AN IM-MPREONTV E OVER 5 YRS UNDER 5 YRS DO YOU BELIEVE THE PREVIOUSLY MODIFIED SECTION OF THE HIGHWAY .. DIS? Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Survey results of Logan City resident opinions on widening Logan Canyon road, January 4, 1989 Description An account of the resource Results of a survey conducted by Councilman Fred Duersch Jr. regarding Logan City residents' opinions of widening the road in Logan Canyon. Results were analyzed and presented by Hancy, Jones, Wright, & Co. on January 4, 1989 to the Municipal Council of the City of Logan. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hancey, Jones, Wright, & Co. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Duersch, Fred, Jr. Subject The topic of the resource Logan Canyon (Utah)--History Public lands--Utah--Logan Canyon--History Roadside improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon United States Highway 89 Logan Canyon (Utah) Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Reports Surveys Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1989-01-04 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Logan Canyon (Cache County, Utah, United States) Utah United States United States Highway 89 Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1980-1989 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives COLL MSS 133, Box 45, Folder 8 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. View the inventory for this collection at: <a href="http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv07669">http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv07669</a> Rights Holder A person or organization owning or managing rights over the resource. Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Libraries Photograph Curator, phone (435) 797-0890. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context USU_MSS133Bx45_Item_2.pdf Highway 89 Reports Surveys https://highway89.org/files/original/a3440fd76ae443b84495ffd7e8ea6a02.pdf 6ed807dc8dd185f886f381bad84c6c68 PDF Text Text I - 7 / TESTIMONY OF CONGRESSMAN JAMES V. HANSEN BEFORE THE TRANSPORTATION SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE HOUSE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE May 6, 1993 Chairman Carr l distinguished members of the Subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity I have to appear Subcommittee. b~fore the On behalf of the constituents of the First District of Utah I am asking along with leaders from the state of Utah for $73,600,000 for the continuation of completion of upgrading U.S. 89 and $3,600,000 for the completion of a new interchange on Interstate 15 (1-15). The U.s. Highway B9 route extends approximately 12 mil~s between the cities of Farmington and ogden. Not only does it provide the principal lihk between major Interstates and these cities, but it is the main lina of transportation between many smaller communities und their markets and suppliers. AdditionallYI it is a principal connection between a major Air FOrce installation, Hill Air Force Base, and the rest of the country. Last year Congress appropriated $2,400,000 to continue conducting initial studies and engineering. Th~ $2,400,000 is an initial portion of a larger, multi-year appropriation initially requested by myself, former Senator �Jake Garn and Senator Orrin Hatch. This project has been authorized through the Highway Reauthorization Bill but for far less than is neQded to complete the project. The reasons that I have come before the Committee to seek continued funding for U.S. 89, ·are that the concerns with the highway continue to mUltiply as the highway is excessively dangerous, the volume of traffic is too large fer the size of the highway, and the local and state governments simply cannot afford to pay for the upgrade of U.S. 89. I am also asking that the committee appropriate $3/000/000 for the completion of a new interchange on 1-15 at Forest st. in Brigham City, utah. Spending for the project has been authorized at a level of $3,600,000 in the Highway Reauthorization Bill. Th~ proposed site of the interchange is located west of Brigham City, Utah. This is the present location of Morton International and the future location of a visitor center for the United states Department of the Interiorfs Bear River Bird Refuge. Morton International is a automotive safety products. larg~ manufacturer of At present, there is no direct off-ramp providing access from 1-15 to the Morton International �facility- Being the largest manufacturer of automotive air bags, Morton Brigham ci~y Internatic~al is pro j ecting dra matic growth at the site over the next four years. Travelers tc the Morton Internat i onal facility must presently access the p l ant by exiting 1-15 approximatel y 3 miles south of the plant or approximately J mi les to the north of t h e p~ant and n ecess~~ a tas he avy to travel by way of busy streets to International facility. ~~ ~ c k s re~ch e~= ou t2 to t~ e p:ant t h e Morton Reduction of congest i on and increased safety are utmost in t h e planning of the ne ~v i n terchange. Additionally, the United States Department of Interior Bear River Bird Refuge is planning to locate it's visitor center at the site of the interchange. The visitor center is expected to draw in excess of 50 0 ,000 visitors per year, or 170,000 vehicles. Due to safety and logistic concerns, construction of a new intersect i on is vital to the viability of the visitol center. Again, I would like to reiterate my support for the effort of the State of Utah to obtain $73 / 000,000 to complete upgrade of U.S. Highway 89 and $3,600,000 to construct a new interchange on 1-15. As growth continues in these areas the safety and logistic concerns will only continue to mount. � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1703">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1703</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2013 Conversion Specs Scanned by Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library using Epson Expression 10000 scanner. Checksum 213621140 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 1502235 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Testimony of Congressman James V. Hansen before the transportation subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee, May 6, 1993 Description An account of the resource Testimony of Congressman James V. Hansen before the transportation subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee stating the reasons for funding to improve the interchange of I-15/US 89, with special mention of the Morton International Facility. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hansen, James V. Subject The topic of the resource United States Highway 89 Roads Improvement--Utah Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Administrative records Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 5/6/93 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Salt Lake City (Utah) Salt Lake County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1990-1999 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Papers of Congressman James V. Hansen, 1970-2003, COLL MSS 351 Series I Box 85 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. View the inventory for this collection at: <a href="http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv82138">http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv82138</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MSS351SerIBx85_Item_2.pdf Highway 89; https://highway89.org/files/original/b3d77f928b392c419f19e10c8cf60e28.pdf a141affb023f955461494ecabc4f4f5b PDF Text Text TESTIMONY OF REP. JAMES V. HANSEN BEFORE THE TRANSPORTATION SUBCOMITTEE OF THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE APRIL 26, 1990 Mr. Chairman, in addition to my oral presentation before the committee, I appreciate the opportunity I have to submit this written statement for the committee record. On behalf of the constituents of the First District of Utah I am asking along with leaders from the state of Utah for $85,000,000 for the completion of upgrading u.s. 89 to a limited access expressway design. The reasons that we have come before the committee to seek funding for u.s. 89, between Burke Lane in Farmington, Utah, and Harrison Boulevard in Weber County, utah, are that the highway is excessively dangerous, the volume of traffic is too large for the size of the highway, and the local and state governments simply can/t afford to pay for the upgrade of u.s. 89. U.S. 89 is located along the Wasatch Front in the north-central part of Utah. It functions as a transportation link between Salt Lake city, Ogden, Hill Air Force Base, and the surrounding area. traffic. I~ is a It serves both local and commuter designa~ed route connecting Interstates 84 and 15 and is one of the only two north/south routes through Weber and north Davis Counties. As a young boy growing up in the area, I remember riding my bicycle up this road. The area was little more �than fruit orchards and rural farm land. since that time, the area surrounding the road has developed into one of Utah's fastest growinq population centers. Traffic has increased along the corridor approximately 135 percent since This traffic increase has resulted from both an 1970. increase in commuter traffic on u.s. 89 and increased local traffic traveling on and across the corridor. OVer twenty years ago, the emerging safety and conqestion problems of u.s. 89 were recognized, and the state of utah petitioned for federal money to develop the road an interstate. that into The application was not approved because, at time, the population and the traffic volumes on the road did not meet Federal Highway Administration standards. Since the recognition of the problem in the 1960 / s, the population and traffic volumes have increased to make u.s. 89 one of the most dangerous roads in the state. Before being elected to Congress, I served as an independent insurance agent in the area, and u.s. paid the most out to those injured on 89 was always where I u.s. 89. I can/t begin to enumerate on the number of deaths and serious accidents I bad to attend to alonq this twelve mile stretch of road. As I speak to my constituents at home and in conversing with my neighbors, I don't know of anyone who has not had a personal friend or ' relative injured or killed because of U.S. 89. To outline the situation, u.s. 89 divides the communities of Farmington, Fruit Heights, Kaysville, and Layton. The portions of these cities surrounding the highway �are completely residential. Over 125 streets and private drives have access to the highway. Presently, we have cars turning left on and off of the road, and, with no controlled access, you can ima9ine the safety implications. While the number of accidents are not abnormal for this type of road, the heavy congestion and cross traffic have caused the number of fatalities to be more than four times the normal rate. To add to the problem, the highway is a major connection route for trucks and automobile traffic between Interstate 84 and Interstate 15. There exists an alternate route to using Interstate 84, but the severe 6% grades that exist on I-80 through Parley's Canyon make using 1-84 the logical route. problem. Heavy truck use has been a major safety Requiring a truck going 55 mph to stop for a car turninq left onto the highway is an obvious threat to safety. At the expense of over $100,000, a study was conducted to find a solution to the problem. The wasatch Front Regional Council and the Utah Department of Transportation initiated the u.s. 89 Corridor study in response to the operational and safety issues of the Corridor. The study included a comprehensive analysis of the existing and future travel demands along u.s. 89 and concluded that the best solution is a limited access expressway design. Throughout the course of the study, local and state opinion has been sought. I am happy to say that at every �level we have received support for the limited access All local leaders responsible for cities expressway design. along the corridor have signed a petition of support. In addition, Governor Norman Bangerter, Senator Orrin Hatch, and Senator 3ake Garn have expressed their strong support for the highway_ According to other additional studies that have been conducted, the cost for the federal government to solve the problem by establishing an interstate would cost upwards of $l~O,OOO,ooo. The estimated cost for the limited access expressway design is $85,000,000. Presently, the state of Utah simply lacks the ability to fund the highway. The Utah State Department of Transportation estimates that given its present level of funding, it would take well over 15 years to finish the projeet. The safety and congestion problems continue to mount, and, if we do not move quickly, we will be faced with further loss of life. Mr. Chairman, in conclusion I would like to reiterate my support for the effort of the state of Utah to obtain $85 million to upgrade U.S. 89 in utah. The safety and congestion problems have become enormous and with a growing population the situation will only get worse. you again for permitting this testimony. Thank � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1704">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1704</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2013 Conversion Specs Scanned by Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library using Epson Expression 10000 scanner. Checksum 957591067 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 2238173 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Testimony of Representative James V. Hansen before the transportation subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee, April 26, 1990 Description An account of the resource Testimony of Representative James V. Hansen before the transportation subcommittee of the House Appropriations Committee, April 26, 1990, requesting funding for US 89 to alleviate the traffic congestion in more rural areas along the highway. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hansen, James V. Subject The topic of the resource United States Highway 89 Roads Improvement--Utah Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Administrative records Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1990-04-26 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Salt Lake City (Utah) Salt Lake County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1990-1999 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Papers of Congressman James V. Hansen, 1970-2003, COLL MSS 351 Series I Box 85 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. View the inventory for this collection at: <a href="http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv82138">http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv82138</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MSS351SerIBx85_Item_4.pdf Highway 89; https://highway89.org/files/original/0057aec5e49ff98be54dc955f758ee12.mp3 475bd1becfcac6cbe06837883a6c651a https://highway89.org/files/original/2ff5831c9365bee55920e58d6c6717b0.pdf 03f6ac5e6ec24f8075f3f1f3008b96e4 PDF Text Text LAND USE MANAGEMENT TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET Interviewee: John K. Hansen Place of Interview: Garden City, UT Date of Interview: 12 March 2009 Interviewer: Recordist: Barbara Middleton Barbara Middleton Recording Equipment: Radio Shack Tape Recorder, CTR-122 Transcription Equipment used: Transcribed by: Transcript Proofed by: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems Susan Gross Randy Williams, 6 July 2011; Becky Skeen, Fall 2012 Brief Description of Contents: Mr. Hansen talks about growing up in Garden City, Utah on his families’ cow and sheep operation, including yearly cycle of ranching: haying, feeding cattle and sheep, moving animals, protecting lambs from predators; his earliest memories of Logan Canyon; three years in the South Pacific during World War II; 18 years in highway construction with WW Clyde and Company in Springville, Utah; returning to Garden City to take over family sheep ranch. Reference: BM = Barbara Middleton (Interviewer; Interpretive Specialist, Environment & Society Dept., USU College of Natural Resources) JH = John Hansen (Interviewee) NH = Noreen Hansen (Interviewee’s wife) BH = Bonnie Hansen (Interviewee’s daughter) NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. TAPE TRANSCRIPTION [Tape 1 of 3: A] BM: I’m going to watch the tape every now and then. This is Barbara Middleton and we are here in Garden City. And this is tape 1, side A. And we are here in the home of John -- Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  1   �JH: BM: John K. Hansen. John K. Hansen. And we are just getting started on the first interview with John. So I am going to have him start off with talking about when and where he was born and a little bit of his background. John. JH: Okay. I was born right here in Garden City, about a mile west of Garden City in my grandfather’s home. The old home still stands there. That was August the 16th, 1924. As I say, that home still stands there. As you go up the highway toward Logan from the last of the service stations, as you begin to climb the hill it’s on your left down off the grade. You can still see that white home down there, it’s still there. BM: So this is Highway 89? JH: Yeah, uh-huh. BM: Up the canyon, okay. JH: Yeah. And I still have a cousin and his wife living there. My grandparents moved out and moved over to Logan at the outbreak of World War II. And they owned a sheep ranch there. They had three sons that worked on that ranch and they all had different things to do. After I grew up enough to be of much help to them I used to help with the haying and with one thing or another. Most of my life was spent right here where we’re sitting except for I spent nearly three years in the South Pacific during World War II. That was from one end of the Pacific to the other, with a few stops in between. Then I spent 18 years in highway construction with WW Clyde and Company over down in Springville, Utah. Then I came back here when my brother had passed away; my dad had been gone for several years and had this ranch here. When my brother passed away he was running the ranch for mother. So I had to come back and I had to quit construction and come back here to help her out. And I’ve been here ever since. I don’t know whether it was a good thing or a bad thing! [Laughing] JH: Today, with the way things are why there just isn’t much in farming and ranching. There isn’t anything here in Garden City anymore. There is so much development; there isn’t what you could call a stable farm or ranch here that would be in full production, like there used to be. BM: So let’s talk a little bit about that, in terms of you started out with sheep ranching and haying and of course have seen a lot of change. Would you go back and talk a little bit about the early years of that sheep ranching and what the haying was like? JH: Yeah. BM: And how old were you at that time? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  2   �JH: Well, when I got old enough to be much help in the hay fields – the hay at that time was all put by a horse plow, with horse drawn mow machines and hay rakes and everything else. They just started using overshot stackers. Well, that was quite a job to work on the pull-up with a team of horses. BM: That’s where the horses --? JH: Yeah, the horses pulled it up on what they call an “overshot stacker” and I had the job of driving the team to put the hay on the stack. BM: So it was a team of two horses that pulled out? JH: Yeah, um-hmm. A regular team. BM: Okay. JH: And then I had the job also of raking up the scatters which was a job for me because you didn’t trip the hay rig with your foot like you did later on, you did that with a lever. And sometimes in heavy hay that lever would just about yank you right off of the hay rig. [Laughing] JH: And I wasn’t very big anyhow, so [laughing]. But that was my job to start out with. BM: You know, I have seen that. And that’s a pretty quick operation. JH: It is. BM: You had to be fast. JH: You have to know what you’re doing and if you’re on that pull-up on the stacker that reaches the top, you can tip the stacker right over on top of that hay stacker over on top of them stacking hay, if you’re not careful. But they usually had it chained down with stakes driven in the ground to keep that from happening. But you had to hit that hard enough, let your team to hit that hard enough up at the very top so that hay would shoot off, and then you would back your team up just a little bit and let that momentum carry the stacker head back. BM: And how high did you build these hay stacks? JH: They were up about, some of them 18-20 feet. BM: So this hay was stored out in these big piles, and just left open to the rain and such? JH: No, no. We stacked all of our hay right here – we had a big field out here in the south of town where we had our wild meadow hay. And all the hay that was in here we stacked Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  3   �right here behind the barn. Generally we would have about four stacks of hay – real good, big stacks of hay when we’re done. And then it would be fenced in. Out in the meadow we did the same thing. We had stockyards built out there, because if you didn’t you always fed your livestock out where the hay was, so you had to fence those yards in or you wouldn’t have any hay left! BM: [Laughing] So you had these stacks at two different places? JH: Oh yeah. BM: Out here, when are you going out and feeding your animals? Is it once a day? JH: Ordinarily we always fed our cattle and sheep twice a day, both of them. BM: And how do you get out there? JH: In the wintertime with a hay rack and a team and sleighs, and you went out and opened the gate and drove in beside your haystack and pitched a load on and hauled it out in the field and strung it off to the animals. Whatever you were feeding: sheep or cattle; you never fed the two of them together. BM: Hmm. And why not? Why won’t you feed them both together? JH: Because the cattle chase the sheep off. BM: Oh, okay. JH: They would eat – they were just too rough on the sheep. And by the time in the wintertime, why your ewes would be getting heavy with lamb, and it was just too dangerous. So you fed them separate. BM: Um-hmm. So you have them in pastures, fenced in different pastures – JH: Um-hmm, yeah. BM: And you have to get the sleighs into both of these pastures – JH: Yeah, um-hmm. BM: To come and feed them. Were the animals waiting for you? JH: You bet, standing there at the gate [laughing]. And one thing that I haven’t saw in this valley for years – all while I was growing up as you remember – well our winters, we had snow over here that you couldn’t see the fences. BM: Oh, wow! Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  4   �JH: You couldn’t see the fences. A lot of times we would just drive our teams and sleighs right over the fences and go right out to the stockyard. And I don’t know why, but the stock just stayed there – you would have thought they would have followed the sleigh roads back. BM: Right. JH: But they didn’t. They stayed pretty – that’s why we fed them twice a day (that’s one reason why). The other reason why, my dad always had a lot of consideration for his animals and it fell off on me too. You know, in bitter cold weather an animal needs to have some feed for it in the mornings – just like you want to have suppertime – BM: Um-hmm. JH: Okay, so did they. And they did better and it didn’t take as much hay either. You would think so, but it didn’t. It didn’t take all that much hay extra. In the springtime then, your animals are ready to go out on the range when it comes time to go and if feed was a little short (which it generally was), why then they could get by a whole lot better until the feed began to come up better so they could get a mouthful, you know? BM: Um-hmm. JH: We always came in with a top weight on our lambs and our calves. And your animals do so much better and they didn’t resent you and you could work them a whole lot better, which just made the work so much easier for the persons that are working them. In the past I have worked for other cattlemen where they fed their cows whether they need it or not. Come calving time you had a mighty tough time with the calving process. The poor old cows had an awful time. And you would pull more calves than you could shake a stick at. BM: Hmm. JH: And the same way with the sheep. In other words, a weak animal is nothing to have. So we always got by that way and did just fine. And that’s what we did when I took this place over, come back to it. We didn’t have the sheep – my dad sold the sheep when the War came on. BM: Um-hmm. Now before you go into that – you just went through almost a whole year of your cattle-sheep cycle. Let’s break that down a little bit, because there are some interesting things there. To me, as far as having them contained and then you’re getting them out onto what I assume was the Cache National Forest? JH: Well, we could always go on the forest on the first day of July. And then on the tenth day of September, your time was up and you came off the forest. And then you had to have a spring and fall range to go with that. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  5   �BM: Now, did the cattle go one place and the sheep go another? JH: Yeah. Well, pretty much so, pretty much so. In the earlier years, back in the Depression years when things were really tough, why they had the sheep and the cattle pretty much together. They just put them out – with the sheep, they were herded. If you didn’t, you would wreck that grazing land (wherever it was – on the forest or your own), you would wreck that grazing land right quick. BM: Um-hmm. And is that because of them eating down close to the ground? JH: Yeah, um-hmm, yeah. BM: Okay. JH: So that’s one thing I would like to stress if it’s your dealing you say with people who hear about these things and without a doubt you too yourself have heard about the old sheep and cattle wars where the cattlemen wanted to run all of the sheep out of the country, and vice versa. And they couldn’t get along. Well my dad never did put his herd out in the morning in the same place they grazed yesterday. BM: Okay. JH: And he would go back over that and he would evaluate what those sheep took yesterday because different feed, and the sheep will get on a barren hillside with nothing but white gravel on that thing, and feed for hours at a time! And you’d wonder, “What in the world are they eating rocks for?” So you ride your horse over there and sit there and watch for an hour what they’re doing. And then you’re going to get off the horse and walk over there and move that sheep out of the road – our sheep are just about as gentle as they could be – and here is a rock about that big around that was sticking up and all around it was gray moss. That’s what they were eating! A cow would never eat that, so the sheep man he always got blamed for dropping out the forest. And some of them did, don’t get me wrong. Because there were some men who overgrazed in other words, and that’s one thing I never saw my dad do or my grandfather. BM: Um-hmm. So your grandfather and your dad both started that business and you were the third then, in your family that continued that? Third generation? JH: Yeah, um-hmm. I didn’t do sheep. Like I say, when World War II came along, Dad sold the sheep because he figured my older brother would be going into the service right quick. I was a junior in high school, at that particular time, and he didn’t figure that he could get along with me, with the sheep. And him trying to be down here and get the irrigating done and everything else that goes with a ranch, you know. BM: So then he became just a cattleman? JH: So he took the money and went and bought cows instead. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  6   �BM: Um-hmm. JH: And he bought himself one heck of a job! [Laughing] Because the cattle that he bought were wild, dirty stinkers! BM: Really? JH: Yes, they were! I’ll tell you what! BM: Where did you go to buy cattle at this time? I mean are you talking about buying cattle in the valley? JH: Yeah. BM: So there are other people that are selling off their herd? JH: Yeah, well the cattle he bought was right down there in the same town – BM: Ovid. Okay, Ovid, Idaho. JH: And the man he bought those cows from – his last name was Olsen. They were the wildest bunch of miserable animals you’ve ever seen! BM: So how did you get them here? How did you bring them from Ovid? JH: They trucked them up here. BM: Okay. JH: Yeah, they trucked them. NH: And the kids down there were the same! [Laughing] BM: So when you got the cattle on the land here, how were they wild? JH: Oh, you just have to be around a sheep outfit, but never had any cattle. You’ve got sheep curls about that high, and they was nothing to a cow! They would just go through her like a Sherman tank! [Laughing] JH: Down here on this lake shore below us, clear along here for oh, half a mile – just a solid line of sheep sheds where they lambed all the sheeps. Now my dad’s brother had a herd, and they ran them together – so that’s where they would lamb them out down here in the Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  7   �early spring. They would start lambing right around the 15th of April and that’s where they would do it. BM: Was there a certain weather condition that they needed? JH: The warmer, the better; the warmer the better. And, the drier the better. BM: Is it warm here at that time of year. JH: It was pretty warm. NH: It was! [Laughing] BM: What’s the temperature April 15th? What do you remember? JH: Back then? It was kicking right around 40 degrees. BM: And snow? Did you have snow? JH: Yeah, there would still be a little snow, not much snow. There would still be a lot of ice on the lake. BM: Okay. JH: That was one of my jobs when we had the sheep. I’d come home from school and hook up a team of horses and go around – this is all slough down here clear over to my uncle’s place. I had to go around to his gate and back around with my team and hook them on to a sled. We had four open top, 50 gallon barrels on there and there is a good spring right below the sheds. I’d go down there with a bucket – 5 gallon bucket – and fill those barrels full. And I’d come up and go through those sheep sheds and water the sheep at night. BM: Oh! So they were in and they were waiting for you to shear them? JH: Well, they generally didn’t shear those sheep until, oh around the 10th of June – it was just too cold. BM: Oh, okay. JH: My dad and his brothers – spring and fall range was over on this side – you’ve seen where that little segment of “R” on top of the hill? BM: Um-hmm. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  8   �JH: Well, their spring and fall ranges were immediately below that. BM: Okay. JH: There were about four sections of land in there that the two of them had together and they ran on, that they homesteaded. So that’s where they take them over after they got through lambing out, why they would put the two herds together and then they would trail them over. It would take them about three days to get them over there with all them young lambs in the bunch. BM: And what are they trailing them through? What’s the landscape like? Is it dry at that time? JH: Yeah. It’s pretty dry. You would be getting spring rain storms, you know, off and on quite a bit. Most generally it was pretty nice weather. BM: Okay. And then, is that where you sheared them then? JH: Yeah, we sheared them over there. BM: Okay. So if your job was shearing, were you actually – JH: My job was right here with my mother. We had five or six milk cows. BM: Ahh. JH: And I had to go them night and morning and help her milk them milk cows. NH: [??] [Laughing] BM: What time did you get up for that job? JH: Oh, we’d get up right around five o’clock on average. From the time I’d get those milk cows milked and get them took out to pasture, why it was getting along towards eight o’clock. And then when I come home at night, I had to go get them again and help her milk them again! [Laughing] BM: That’s a busy job. That’s another regular kind of thing you have to do every day. JH: Yeah. It’s an every day process – there’s just no getting away from it. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  9   �BM: So then when it was shearing time, in between the milking of the cows were you down there helping them with the sheep shearing? JH: Nope, no. That was all done across the lake over there on the east mountains. I just had to stay here and help her and help her plant the gardens and stuff like that. BM: Sure because the weather was planting time. NH: Did you help lamb the lambs, when they were down -- ? JH: Yeah, um-hmm. BM: So tell us about that – so that’s right across the street here. JH: Yeah. BM: Okay, tell us about the lambing. JH: Oh, that was a terrible job! [Laughing] That was a clock around job. You always had a night shift to go on. They would hire a couple of guys and most generally, why they were my dad and my uncle’s nephews that just lived around the corner there and they was both married. They’d come over and one of them would come to work just as it was beginning to get dark at night. And they would always pull a sheep camp down there so they’d have a place to stay in all the weather. And then the other one would come over and relieve him right shortly after midnight. And he would go until like six o’clock in the morning – most generally five or four o’clock my dad was down there. And they’d hire those guys to help them out that way. And there was a job of having to feed those sheep down there off the hay rack. Those big corrals we had down there – we had to board up the side of the wagons clear to the ground so the ewes and the lambs couldn’t get under and get run over. And I fell under that job more times than not! [Laughing] That was first thing in the morning, but when I come home from school – lo and behold them milk cows were still staring me in the face! BM: So when are lambs typically born? Are they often night, or? JH: Anytime, any day. You could always tell when the pressure dropped you would get a bunch of lambs. If the pressure dropped, why you’d have lambs all over. That was another little job I had to do. They had a sheep boat it was just on a pair of skids (like that water skid I was telling you about), only they had a little box on that thing. I would go out through the corrals and generally either dad or my cousin or my uncle would go along with me and we would gather up the lambs and ewes and put them in that thing. We had a lot of space where we could put the ewes and the lambs in a pen to theirselves. And then you had to constantly shift them and make room for the next go around. It was quite a deal. And then if you weren’t watching real close, you could get those lambs mixed up and then boy, there was all heck to pay! Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  10   �[Laughing] BM: A lamb can lose it’s mom? JH: Oh yeah. BM: Huh. How do they know their mother? JH: They have their own smell, their own scent. Each one has their own scent. And that’s how the mothers can tell their own lambs apart. BM: So when the mother gets sheared two months after the lamb was born, the lamb still knows mom because she still smells the same even though she might look a lot different. JH: Um-hmm, yep. Oh yeah! That don’t bother them lambs. They know where that bottle of milk’s at! [Laughing] BM: Don’t lambs have twins? JH: Yes. BM: And triplets sometimes? JH: Twins and triplets and sometimes four lambs – I’ve seen them have four lambs. But I hated to see triplets, I just hated to see triplets. Because mama most generally didn’t have the milk for them. BM: Oh! JH: So you would have to go through the herd and find a mama that only had one lamb. And then the trick was to get mama to take that lamb. And until you could get her milk going through that lamb, she wouldn’t have nothing to do with them. BM: So how do you do that? JH: You just tip the ewe up on her hind end and you suckle that lamb until he filled up and then you put them back in the pen together. And if she got mean with him, why you’d have to put him in a little side pen next to her. And then you always let that little lamb get just a little on the hungry side – there was tricks just like there is in all trades [laughing] – you just had to be able to figure out, you know, what was going on and understand your animals. So you would let him get good and hungry and then you would take her lamb (because she had one lamb), you would take her lamb and put him over in that pen with the bum lamb. Then when you come back to feed those lambs, then odd lamb (to her), he’s hungry enough to hang up the bottle and so is her lamb hungry enough. So then you had to get a hold of that ewe and make her behave herself, and put a lamb on each side. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  11   �And every time she tried to reach around her to bump that spare lamb, why you just popped her on the nose and let her behave herself. BM: So how many like, triplets did you have in the season? That’s a lot of work! JH: That is a lot of work! Thank heaven there wasn’t too many of them! [Laughing] [End Tape 1: A; Begin Tape 1: B] BM: Tape 1, side 2. And we’re continuing with the sheep and the bum lamb and getting it to take to a different mother. JH: Um-hmm, yeah. Okay, so you made her behave herself and made her keep standing up so both lambs (on each side) could suck. A mother will always turn around and stick her nose right back under that lamb’s tail. That’s how she identifies that lamb, is by her milk going through that lamb. So that’s why then once you can get her to behave herself and get enough of her milk going through the bum lamb. And then if she don’t want to stick her nose around there and recognize him, you bend it around her and make her do it. You could save little lambs that way. BM: How do you bend a sheep around? I mean aren’t these sheep pretty big? JH: Yeah. The average of my dad’s sheep – they were big old Columbia ewes – and they weighed around 150 pounds. And I’ll tell you what, you’ve got a job to do. BM: And how old were you at the time? JH: Oh, I guess I was about 14 when I would help them down there. Then I would go through their corrals with them and help them that way when I could. In later years here I had a little herd of my own here on the place. I would lamb them right here and sheared them out right here. So I knew all about how to handle them. BM: Now one other thing, before you go on to that: you were mentioning that sometimes the mother didn’t take to the – what did you call it? Bum lamb. JH: Yeah. BM: So there were times when you had to supplement and feed yourself. JH: Yeah. BM: Could you tell us a little bit about that? JH: Well, if you was worth a hoot, you could make her take that lamb. BM: So it was pretty successful? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  12   �JH: Yeah, it worked fine, it worked real good. We made that ewe stay in that pen until she took that lamb, until she let that lamb suck. And then we would put her out in the bigger pen with a few more ewes and their lambs and watch her, until you knew that she had the lamb, she recognized the lamb and she would feed the lamb. And she would keep track of it. But it was all the other lambs that came along like that – whether it was triplets and you didn’t have any place to put two of them – why you bottle fed them. We’d keep them around, we’d bottle feed those little beggars all summer. BM: Is this cow milk your? JH: Just cow milk, yep. Just cow milk. [Laughing] NH: It wasn’t that much of a job! [Laughing] JH: The only problem I had, you would have a bum lamb and a bottle – those little beggars, they liked to get a hold of that nipple on the end and they would just start chewing on that and sucking on that, pretty soon they would back up and pop the nipple off. The milk would go out! Then they’d run around in middle of the corral and spit the nipple out and you would have to go find it and wash it off! It was a job, you know. It could try your patience sometimes, but we always had some real good bum lambs to sell when the sheep would come off the forest. Ordinarily my dad’s lambs weighed around, oh, around 90-95 pounds. Which is a real good lamb. BM: And how old would that lamb be? JH: That would be an April born lamb. BM: Okay. So when were the sheep and the lambs turned out on to the National Forest? When did you turn them out for grazing? JH: That’s on the first day of July of the year. BM: Okay, so that’s July. So they are on the ground, they’re being born in April, so April, May, June – they’re only like three months old. JH: Yep. BM: So how big is this lamb at this time? Is this like a loaf of bread? Is it -- ? JH: The newborn lamb? BM: Um-hmm. JH: Some of those little fellars would weigh, oh, I guess about six or eight pounds. I hated to see that – I liked to see a smaller lamb more because it will get up and it will go. If Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  13   �they’re any heavier than that in the cold weather, the little beggars will lay right there and freeze to death if you ain’t right there. BM: Hmm. JH: And then they get lazy and they don’t want to follow mama. If you’re moving them, like on a range, why they won’t get up and follow mama, when she leaves them – goes and begins to feed why they lay right there and then that ewe will have to go clear back there and get that confounded lamb. A lot of time she can’t find it because the little cuss won’t answer her. If the herder don’t know where that’s happened – if you ain’t watching your herd in other words – why, that can happen you lose a lot of lambs. If it doesn’t happen that way then the coyote gets them or the cat. BM: So that would have been one of the predators that – JH: Yeah, um-hmm. BM: Mountain lions or coyotes. JH: Or coyotes, yup. BM: Were there pretty healthy populations of those? JH: Oh, there was a lot of coyotes! There was a lot of coyotes. A lot of times we’d have to get up in the night and go run them off. Over on the east side of the lake when they first got up there in the spring – take the old lanterns and hang lanterns all around the bedding ground. You never let them sheep just sleep anywhere, you put them on the bed ground so you could watch them. BM: Huh! And you put lanterns around the edge? JH: Um-hmm. Put lanterns all around your bed ground and that would help keep the coyotes out of them. But a lot of times you had to go out there and run the dang things off. BM: So you’re on horseback running – JH: No. No, you’re on foot at night. BM: Oh. JH: You just go out there and when it’s dark you can’t see nothing anyhow – you just go out there and run them off the best you can. BM: Um-hmm. Did you yell? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  14   �JH: Yeah. You just had to holler and be careful how you done it because if you got to yelling, why the next thing you know your whole herd got off the bed ground and gone out in the sagebrush somewhere! BM: Holy smokes! So how many of you are doing this? How many of you are watching the bedding grounds as well as running off – how many people are managing? One. JH: Um-hmm. Just the herder. BM: And that’s you? JH: Well, sometimes it was. After we got out of school in the middle of June, why there was no school so I would go out and let my dad come home and do some things that he needed to do. Over there, you know, there are some nasty looking rattlesnakes, and out in the dark with them sheep. You could get pretty snaky! [Laughing] BH: So Dad, was that the common way most sheep herders did? Was just one sheep herder? JH: Yeah. Well, not too much. Pert near all the sheep men around here -- and there was a lot of them in Rich County. Over here right across from us and clear up into Idaho, there was eight herds of sheep over there. BM: Clear up would be like – JH: Up there at Mud Lake – east of Mud Lake. BM: Gotcha. JH: There was eight herds of sheep over there, besides what was over here. Nine out of ten of them had a Mexican herder. A big part of them had a Mexican herder. BM: Hmm. And why was that? JH: Didn’t have to pay them so much. [Laughing] BM: Cheap labor. JH: Yep, cheaper labor. NH: And the [inaudible] didn’t make them herd sheep. BM: Oh, okay. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  15   �JH: But you know, where the bulk of those old Mexican herders, they were the nicest people you’d ever want to be around. For example, if we picked up some of their stray sheep, we’d come out of our herd and then we’d take them over (with their brand on them, you know, we knew which herd they went to) so quick as we got a chance we would take them over there to that herd. And then you could sit there and visit with – if you could understand that Mexican. Most of them, they could talk broken English pretty fair, you know. He’d ask you if you’d want, “How about a cup of coffee before you go back?” or something like that, and you could talk about things. Most of the herds that was right here came from the Nebeker Ranch right over here. We was right by them. So if they had any problem at all over there – and all those herders rode mules – the orneriest bunch of contemptible animals you’ve ever seen in your life! [Laughing] NH: Now he could have said something worse! [Laughing] BM: Oh, tell me about these mules! JH: Yep, they were good. They were good mountain animals to ride if you could stay on them! Yeah. You had to ride them with a breast strap on your saddle and a britchen on the back end to keep the saddle from sliding over his ears. BM: Right! JH: And when you’re going up hill the breast strap kept the saddle from coming back and sliding off the tail end! But anyway, if they happen to get or something, why they would come over to our camp and we didn’t have much of a problem to get down here, the Nebeker Ranch, and let them know about it. BM: Now why mules? Did the Mexicans that worked the sheep – did they bring mules with them, or is that something that was locally used? JH: Nope. Nope, that was just what was locally used on some sheep outfits. BM: And why not horses? JH: Well, mule don’t take as much feed and he’s got a lot of good stamina; and I guess mostly that was probably the reason why most of those sheep men furnished mules survived. BH: Dad, were horses more expensive than mules? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  16   �JH: You know, they were to go buy a good horse. NH: Well a mule would eat what a horse wouldn’t eat too, wouldn’t they? JH: Yeah. BM: So they eat less and they eat a different kind of feed? JH: Well, they eat the same thing as far as that goes. I’ve seen them go strip the bark off cedar trees and eat the bark off of cedar trees. BM: Ooh. Well it also sounds like you’re in some pretty rough country, if you need to both tie your saddle off on the tail and with a breast collar – you’re going up and down some rugged hills! JH: You do! You do over there! Back here on the forest it’s even steeper than that! We had to use breast straps and troopers on all of our back horses because you couldn’t keep a pack on there right. One thing about that job, if you didn’t know how to throw a square cinch tie, you was in trouble! You could never keep a pack on a pack saddle. So when I was with my dad, why I learned how to tie that knot. [Laughing] You use what they call “swing cinches” to work on that knot. I’d crawl up on top of that load and roll the square end so he could hook the other end of rope through it; and when you pulled it down to a cinch, it would just pull a square knot just about that big. And that pack didn’t move. BM: Hmm. Could you still tie that knot today? JH: I don’t know whether I could or not! [Laughing] NH: I think he could. JH: I don’t know whether I could or not! [Laughing] BM: So when you were tying this up – it sounds like you’re going out to stay for awhile with supplies for a sheep camp? JH: Yeah. Well every time you moved camp – and you had to move, ordinarily we would move camp up here about, oh nearly every other day. Like I say, the easier you took it on your feed allotment up there, the better feed you had next year. And your water supplies, your spring supplies – it is amazing at how much it helped those spring supplies! BM: What do you mean by that? Tell me more about how the grazing helps the spring. JH: Well, you know you’ve seen where the grass is burned in the summer months, burned right to the ground – where it’s never had anything. It hasn’t had enough water all Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  17   �summer long. Well that’s what it looks like if you over-graze it. Well there is nothing there to hold the summer rains that comes; to revitalize that feed and keep your water supply up. So over-grazing hurts that range more than anybody could ever think. Anybody that does that is doing nothing but hurting their own self and their animals. BM: Um-hmm. And you probably saw some of that? JH: Oh, I’ve seen too much of it. BM: So what makes that change? Were you and your dad and your grandfather – was the permit system already in place then in the forest? JH: Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, gosh I don’t think I was much more than, what – maybe five years old – when my dad – well my grandfather came into this country with the first herd of sheep that came into Bear Lake Valley. BM: When was that? JH: I can’t tell you the year – he was a very young man himself, and he herded sheep for a big sheep company out west of Ogden. [Thinking out loud] What in the heck is that little town out west of Ogden? BM: Were you around Lucerne? In that area? JH: No, this is right straight west of Ogden – NH: It’s not Roy – JH: No, no. BM: But you’re west of town and east of the lake then? JH: Oh yeah, yeah. I’m just telling you where he grew up. He lived in that town. No. NH: No, Milton’s over in Cache Valley. JH: No. Well anyway, that’s where he was from. That’s where he was born and raised there. When he was around, oh about 16 years old (oh, I guess he was 15 years old), he went to work for one of those big sheep that’s out west of Ogden – Plain City! BM: Oh, okay: Plain City. JH: Plain City. That’s where he was from, Plain City. And then these big sheep outfits was out toward the north side of Salt Lake. And they brought the first herd of sheep over in this valley and he came over as a camp jack. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  18   �BM: Hmm. What is a camp jack? NH: Cook! [Laughing] JH: No, he was just an all-around – NH: Handyman. JH: Handyman, yeah and a cook. NH: Except for your dad, he had to do his own! [Laughing] JH: My dad, later on after he had gotten married, he bought some sheep and he came over and homesteaded that ranch up here. And part of that ranch is up there where you are coming down the canyon, you know and making loops around? BM: Um-hmm. JH: And all the buildings back there? Well, that belonged to him and it went over north of there, oh about a mile and a half. And it come this way almost over above the middle hill over here. He homesteaded and bought; that’s where his spring and fall range is that. And his summer range was all over Swan Creek Peak up here. BM: So tell me some of the landscape features. Before we turned the tape on you mentioned some hollows and some areas. Take us like from the south end to the north end of where he worked his sheep. JH: Well, our grandpa had his sheep over here on Swan Creek. His summer range was all over Swan Creek; it was a sweet setup. You didn’t have to trail anywhere to get on the horse. And it didn’t have very far to come off the horse. And most generally it had to be off the Cache National by the 10th of September, they had to come off. Most of the guys had to come off anyway to cut their lambs out and ship their lambs. BM: And who checked to make sure that you were off? JH: Hmm. NH: Forest Rangers. JH: Forest Rangers. I don’t know, I don’t really remember having them come and check us off. I know right up here west of the golf course, over the top of the hill, they had what they called the “Counting Trail” where you took your sheep on, on the first day of July. And the ranger sits there on his horse and he counted your sheep on. And if you had more in that herd than you was supposed to have, you had a problem on your hands trying to keep that many sheep out of your herd and then finding a way to get them down home! Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  19   �So you was pretty darn careful about going on that forest with the same amount of sheep that your permit called for. BM: Does your permit change from year to year, as far as the number you can take? JH: Nope. Ours didn’t, some of them did. BM: And that would depend upon what? JH: That depended on that Forest Ranger. He’d come, oh generally he’d get around our herd about, oh right around the first of September (some time in there) and he’d ride that whole summer range: Dad’s whole allotment. And check the whole thing over. And that was one thing my dad was always proud about, he had the best allotment of the whole bunch because he didn’t overgraze. BM: So he sounds like he was very responsible with it. JH: He was. You never saw a more honest man in your life. I can blow about him! [Laughing] I don’t think he would steal a six penny nail from anybody. But he knew livestock, he knew what they were about and he knew what he had to do to keep them to the point where they was going to make him some money. BM: And it sounds also like taking care of the landscape for next year’s grazing and – JH: Exactly, um-hmm. That’s right. Your watersheds – that was another thing that the old ranger we had up here. I could remember him, he rode and old white horse. And he would come over to our camp every Tuesday when he was up in there. Our range was clear up – you know where the Beaver Mountain ski lift is? Okay, the actual Beaver Mountain is not there. The actual Beaver Mountain at that time (and it still is) right across Beaver to the north east. That big old mountain back in there – BM: Um-hmm. JH: Okay. Our allotment went right up to the flats, the Beaver Flats. You go up through that narrow canyon there, right up to the Beaver Flats. And there was a saw mill up there a little ways and dad’s allotment ended right by that saw mill. BM: Do you remember the name of the saw mill? JH: I’m trying to remember. The man that owned that saw mill lived down there in St. Charles. Hmm. NH: [Inaudible] [Laughing] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  20   �JH: Yeah, oh I’ll tell you my memory is just – NH: Oh about the saw mill and about St. Charles. Was it an Allred? JH: No. He had that mill up on the Beaver Flat. BM: Well, maybe we’ll think of it as we’re chatting. NH: I’ll go get the phonebook and go through it – that’s what I’ve done before! [Laughing] BM: That’s a pretty big allotment. JH: It is. It wasn’t very wide. It came down as you come up above the Beaver turnoff and you start making them turns, you know that kid has always had saddle horses in there. BM: Hmm, um-hmm. JH: And that’s one guy I’d like to take a boot to! [Laughing] BM: Because? JH: He treats his horses like, I’d better not say it. NH: He does not feed them. He does not take care of them. JH: He stands those horses in the hot, boiling sun with a saddle on them, waiting for somebody to come along and rent them. What in the world is wrong with that pine grove behind them – taking them over there and tying them in the shade so they got a place at least they’re not burning up! BH: Sometimes when we’re down that way, you know, I have to hang on to him so then there’s no stopping and going out there and turning them horses loose! [Laughing] JH: Well, I love a horse. You can’t beat a good horse and the only way you have a good horse is to treat that horse like you would treat your own self. You know? I’ve always had a horse that will work for me and the danged horse, just like a buddy. BM: So you had horses too? On the ranch? JH: Oh yeah, oh yeah. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  21   �BM: So you didn’t have mules? JH: No. We didn’t have any mules, thank heaven! [Laughing] BM: So the horses then you used when you went out with the sheep in the summer time? You would pack horses? JH: Yeah. BM: Okay. Do you remember any of the names of your horses? JH: Oh yeah! We had Old Lass and I had a little mare that I’d bought from an old fellar out here (he had sheep and this was years and years later). The horses he used to put on his sheep camp and I herded sheep for him a couple of years out here anyway, out on his spring and fall range up on the top of south of Lake Town. BM: Okay. JH: And he had some horses that were so old, they would start to stumble with you and before they’d quit stumbling they’d be 100 feet down the road with you. They were just wore out. So his son-in-law got a chance to buy some young mares that came off the Carter desert out here in Wyoming. BM: The Carter desert? JH: The Carter desert. BM: So is that around Kemmerer? JH: It’s east of Kemmerer and a little bit north, kind of over towards Piney area. BM: Um-hmm. JH: That’s where them horses come from. So the son-in-law, when we came off the summer range that fall (and I wound up herding his sheep that time out here on the spring and fall range). So Paul rounded up all but that one horse that I was riding – a big old black horse (he could stumble over his own shadow) and he rounded up those old sheep camp horses and he traded them to this guy that had bought a bunch of those little Morgan mares. [End Tape 1: B; Begin Tape 2: A] BM: Tape 2, John Hansen and Side A. Go ahead with the Morgan thoroughbred story. JH: [Laughing] Well, anyway, Paul he traded those old, wore out sheep camp horses. They were in good shape, they were fat and so they brought a lot of money. They was buying Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  22   �them for fox feed. And so Paul, he just made a trade with them for some of those little thoroughbred Morgan mares. BM: Okay. Hang on – for fox feed, who is raising foxes? In the Valley? JH: Yeah. There was (I can’t remember his first name), but he was a stock from down here at Fish Haven. He used to have foxes. But I think he’d gone out of business by then. But most of the foxes came from over east of Preston, Idaho. BM: Okay. And they’re raising foxes for what particular industry? JH: Fur; for the fur industry. BM: Fur? So coats and other -- ? JH: Yeah, just for their coats, just for their fur. So when the boss seen them little mares, he really blew up. He cussed that son-in-law up one side and down the other one and he said, “Nothing but a bunch of junk!” He says, “Ain’t worth nothin’!” He says, “they’re not even worth having on the ranch! Just load ‘em up and get ‘em out of here!” he says. And he says, “We’ll go somewhere and find some horses!” Paul told him, he said, “Well, we can go find you some horses Tom, but you’re going to pay around $1,000 a piece for them horses if you expect your riders to get anything done on this ranch.” “Well what did you sell them others for?” “Because,” he said, “they had run out from under us too many times. They get right down on their knees,” he said, “and plow their nose in the dirt. You’re going to kill some of your men one of these days!” So they argued and argued and argued and no sir, Tom, he wanted them horses, them little mares. (What was it I think – there was five of them, five of them.) So the boss, he was going on like that and I had my eye on one of them and I just thought, “Well, you know, I’ll betcha I could get that mare for 50 bucks.” So while he was going on, “It ain’t worth nothin’, it ain’t worth nothin’.” When he stopped, I just, “Tom, I’ll just give you 50 bucks for that little mare right there, if you will sell her to me right now.” “Get her outta here! You’re on!” [Laughing] JH: I hadn’t even talked to her! We were a little short on cash anyhow! BH: Was this Snooks? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  23   �JH: Yeah. NH: Yeah, this is Snooks. BH: This is Snooks that nobody could ride except when Dad came home, she would saddle up to Dad. I remember her. JH: So anyway, I rode her out that winter. There was never a time she ever bucked with me. I just made good friends with her and once in a while I’d sneak her a little sugar [laughing], and a little extra oats or something, you know. And we got along just wonderful. And then when I quit herding sheep and went back to punching cows, that thing turned into the best cow horse we ever had on this place. BM: But you were the only one that could ride her? JH: Yeah. NH: Yes. BH: She ran away with me on her. BM: Oh! BH: I was coming down with Uncle Stan [he] was bringing the cows down, and I was up there with him and I begged him to get on her. And he thought, well if he had a hold of her bridle maybe I could. So he gave in and let me get on top of her, and she got away from him and ran away with me. BM: Oh my! How old were you Bonnie? BH: Oh, about nine I think, right around there. NH: I think, yeah. BH: And we were headed for the highway. BM: Oh! BH: And there was a fence at the bottom of the pasture there. And I could see that fence coming – I don’t know what happened, but I fell off of it, right in the middle of a cow pie! [Laughing] JH: Soft landing! [Laughing] Soft landing! Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  24   �BH: And Uncle Stan said, “Don’t you tell your mother that I let you get on that horse!” [Laughing] JH: He didn’t like to ride her very good because she got out from under him a time or two. She’d turn with a cow. I just talked to that little mare and she just picked it up as a natural, you know. She’d lay that shoulder right into a cow and that cow got ornery and tried to go around her, why she’d just – and that cow would just over. And the cow would generally go on her knees, you know. But when that cow got up that little sorrow mare had her right on the loop of the tail that sticks up – POP! She could take the hair right off, and that cow would bellar, man! She’d get back in the herd and she’d stay here! [Laughing] JH: But what I’m going to tell you about, you’re not going to believe, I know! That’s the only cow horse I rode from Goodwin’s. The only cow horse that I ever seen that you could get a cow in a fence, going down that fence and trying to get by you, and you’d reach over and grab that cow by the nose and make her back up, you know. She’d get over there in the fence. When that cow tried to get between her and that fence again, she planted all fours and run them back, sure as the cow on your right. You just take your rope, once that brass horn [clapping hands] banged her on the nose and she behaved herself. That cockeyed horse was running backwards almost as fast as she could front ways! [laughing] The first time she done that with Stan, he wasn’t looking for it (and I’d warned him about her; I said, “when your tailing cows with her, she will run backwards if that goes to go by you and she don’t want it to, she’ll plant all fours and run backwards with him and she’ll leave you sittin’ right there on her nose!”) [Laughing] And she did, a time or two! BM: So how old, when you picked this mare out and said, “That’s the one I want.” How old was she when you got her? JH: How old was she? Three. BM: Okay. And what made you choose her, when you looked at her? JH: Just her confirmation, her build, her legs and up here between her ears is where I always looked. If there’s a bump up there, get rid of them; but if there’s a good roll, a good roll is a smart horse. I’m going to check my horses when I go back home! If any of them have a bump, they’re in trouble! BM: [Laughing] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  25   �JH: If they’ve got a big bump, they can be ornery son of a guns. BM: All be darned. JH: Anyway, I’ve ridden some nasty cow horses that would get dried out from under you. BM: So you had to replace Snooks when? How long did you have her? JH: I had that little mare for, oh gee, I guess 10 years or more. NH: A good ten years. BM: And you eventually retired her because? JH: Yeah, I had to. I had her over on the east side of the lake, rounding up one fall. I was trying to get them through a fence. I had quite a herd of cows and I was all alone and trying to move them over into another pasture where the last ten days that I was going to be over there with them for the season. And they was giving me a bad time, that little mare she just worked so hard. Finally when I stopped to let them get through the gate, why as usual, some ornery old heifers broadside the gateway and nothing could go through. And that’s when my brother come along, about that time, him and a couple of his buddies. (No, that wasn’t my brother that was Randall.) NH: Yeah, that was Randall our oldest son. JH: It was late in the afternoon, well quite late because he’d come from college over here and he brought his girlfriend with him. They all jumped out of the car and run over there hooting and hollering and got the cows a going. So when they got through the gate I got off to go shut the gate of course and I looked around – I could always drop the reins and that mare would stay there when I came back if it was an hour – went over and shut the gate, come back and she was just a quivering. So that was the last work she ever done for me. When I put her in the pasture here at the place, and she died here. BM: Ahh. JH: So. BM: Oh, I bet that was a hard loss. NH: Oh it was a sad day. JH: It was. NH: That was a sad, sad day. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  26   �BM: So she was about 18-19 – no, how old was she? She worked 10 or more years, so she was probably about 15. JH: Um-hmm. Yeah, she would have been right around 15 I guess when she died. BM: Those are probably big hooves to fill. JH: No. BM: No? JH: Nope. That’s another reason why I chose her. It didn’t cost the cock-eye much to shoe her; she was easy to shoe. I never had a problem putting a shoe on that mare right from day one. She always wore a double odd shoe. It didn’t take much to put shoes on her and she could get through brush for the bigger horses, but take half a day. But you had to be a rider to ride her in tall sagebrush, because she would go over the tallest of it! She’d just – like that. BM: Oh, just jump it. JH: Yeah, she’d jump it. BM: Holy cow. And you were hanging on! JH: I’ll say I was hanging on! [Laughing] BM: So who did you replace her with? JH: Randall, our oldest son, he bought a horse from (now I can’t remember his name, over there, he would live in North Logan) – no, no. He would be in North Logan now, but he had those American saddle horses. BM: Oh, okay. JH: He had this three year old – a real pretty, sorrow horse, with three white socks and a blaze face – BM: Another mare? JH: No. It was a gelding. And he bought that horse and – NH: [Inaudible] JH: Yeah, Loy Robinson was his name. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  27   �[Inaudible chattering in the background] JH: Anyway, he bought that horse from him and he was just halter-broke. And he brought him over here and we saddled him up and warmed him up walking him around the corral. And I got on my horse and just snubbed for him a little out here in the field; got him over there behind where Randall’s house is now and I just reached over and unsnapped the halter rope and turned him loose. [Laughing and chattering] JH: Well that horse just stopped, you know. So I just turned around and headed back down to the corral. And the horse he just (we named him Mac, well I guess I did), and the horse, he just followed us for a little ways. And then pretty soon that horse hit a running walk and he never stopped until he got to the barn door. And that’s the way that horse was for all the time we had him here on the ranch. You could get him up in the morning, jump him out of the truck over there when you was going to round up or move to another pasture, to get him out of there (just about the time the sun was coming up and by about six o’clock), that night you could aim him back to the truck and he would hit that running walk and that sucker was there until he got to the truck. He just had that much guts to him. He was just an all around good horse. He was fast, you could rope off of him. Randall never really rode him a heck of a lot! NH: He wasn’t here! JH: Well, that’s right, he was. He was in college most of the time. NH: College and on a mission, and – JH: Yeah, and then he went on a mission, didn’t he? Yeah. NH: Yeah. He got one year of college and then he went on his mission. BM: But this is a horse that other people could ride, unlike Snooks who -- ? JH: Well, I wouldn’t have put a kid on him. I wouldn’t have put somebody on him that, you know, wasn’t very used to riding for the simple reason if you got him around a cow, you better be ready to ride because he’s watching. If you’re just riding by a cow, if he figured that thing was going to turn and go somewhere, he wanted to go right now. You know, a typical cow horse, cutting horse. I only rode one other horse that was better than he was for cutting cows and that was Ross Jackson over here at Randolph one spring (the spring I got out of the Army). He had this American saddle mare – beautiful thing. Solid black, four white socks and a white blazed face and she had kind of a light mane and tail. He gave me her to ride in my stream and he says, “That’s been my personal horse, you take care of her.” And he says, “She’ll get your work done, but boy you better be ready to ride!” Well, he wasn’t Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  28   �kidding! That horse knew more in a half-book second about what a cow was going to do than I would know in all the year. First thing we did, went down to the field. That was in the last part of April, when it was nice and slick down there with slush on the ground. We gathered up a bunch of cows with little calves and riding around them, got them all bunched, ready to go up to the corral so we can put them in the corral above the road, so we could brand the calves tomorrow. Well first thing that happened: here goes a little calf, gone across the field – bam! That mare had that calf so cock-eyed quick! She caught that calf and spun and me just still hanging out there! I had to grab hot air! [Laughing] I wasn’t looking for it. Well, for one thing it was so slick, you know, I was afraid she was going to go out from under me. But he had some pretty good shoes on. They used horse shoes in those days, not these little pressed plates that will go out from under you. And so they had toe carts and heel caulks for them, and that’s the only thing that saved Dave! That cock-eyed mare had that calf back to mama right fast. And me hanging for dear life just trying to be there too! When I learned how to ride her, I knew what she was, you know. So I was watching her and we got along like two peas in a pod. We went out that spring and rode over to – well that was on the edge of the Carter desert where you had about 200 head of cows with unbranded calves that he’d just pulled off of a feedlot over there somewhere and set them up. And we had to go get them the next day and trail them clear back through Kemmerer then pert near to Randolph over here in the Crawford Mountains. And that was the nastiest spring I’ve ever seen. The first day, everything was peachy; it was nice and warm coming across that alkaline desert. I didn’t know where we was going, and the other rider that was with me – and to top it all off, to make it even nastier, we had 100 head of yearlings in there and they wanted to go home. And the cows was taking it pretty easy and it was hot. So he was riding the point and I was back on bringing up the tail end. And you couldn’t see your nose in front of your face for the alkaline dust flying. The next day the boss went and borrowed a sheep camp from a sheep man over there to put behind his truck to follow us through and then he had to take all of them mountain roads around to meet us here and there. In the middle of that night, the wind come up and it got cold! Man, it did get cold! And the whole herd got up and monkeying around so we had to get up and keep them together. And by about four o’clock that morning, here come the sleet. And man! I had a real good pair of bull hide chaps and I had it treated – what the old Mexican sheep herders told me to treat them new chaps with. They were roughouts. “Don’t put oil on them, don’t put oil on them – make too cold; when come time for cold weather, no bed, no bed. You get fur hung up under horse belly and get throwed and hurt.” Well what are you going to treat it with? “Go find yourself a big pine tree, with lots of pine gum. Take big ball of pine gum,” then he says, “you go put that in a pot and then get some minks foot oil and you put with pine gum; heat it good and mix it up real good. Go buy yourself a new wash rag if you have to and use that wash rag to put that on your chaps. Lay them out there on something flat and work that in.” He says, “It’d take you three or four days.” And I said, “Well, pine gum, that will make those chaps so stiff I can’t get into them at Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  29   �all!” “No rain go through, no rain go through and it will do cold, it will do cold,” he says. “You fix them chaps like I tell you and you be mighty glad you did.” Well that was one time I was mighty glad I did. The chaps, they stayed just right – they were fairly stiff you know -- just to hold their shape. And I could sit on a horse and I was covered down to my in steps on my boots and the water run off them and never got anywhere near damp inside at all. When we road for four days and four nights on that trail in the most miserable, cold storm you ever wanted; calves going in every direction on the tail end and me trying to hold them. And every time Casey come back to try to help me, the yearlings would take off and run. So we’d have to bunch the works together again and lose time a doing it. BM: And how many are you moving at this time? JH: We had, I think there was 215 head of cows with new calves. Well the calves was probably about like a month old calf. And then there was 100 head of those miserable, lousy yearling heifers. [Indistinguishable] [Laughing] JH: We battled and fought that through and out in that country, in that desert, there is washes to beat the band; and I wish I could remember the name of them. Because when you picked up some of these books and read them – he’ll tell you about some of them places you’ve been. There was two washes: one was a big, deep, wide wash and another one was smaller. And I read his books where it’s mentioned both of those washes right out here in Wyoming, by name. When we’d cross those things with that herd, that was all alkali country and just as slick as it could be. BM: Um-hmm. JH: And you’d get down in those cock-eyed things and you’d have a time of getting out. Then when I’d come along on the tail end, invariably I’d have about 30 to 40 head of them cock-eyed little calves on the tail-end, and ma up there bellering on the other side, and them calves trying to run back. And that mare just worked herself silly to keep them calves from getting away. If you ever wanted to see a smart animal – brother, there’s a smart animal: a horse. Well, we finally got through those washes and up the other side and finally, oh I guess about 4 o’clock in the afternoon why, it quit sleeting. It kind of shot off, you know, and then oh man, did it cold. And then Keith come riding back to me and he said, “We haven’t got very much farther to go John,” he says, “we only got about ten miles so we’re going to be coming up on Old Lady Wheeler’s ranch. Now that’s a big ranch, they’ve got Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  30   �great big cattle corrals in front of that big, old house. The house, it’s a two-story house, it’s got a veranda clear around the top story and around the bottom.” And he says, “When we get there,” he says, “we gotta be careful.” [Remembering] Zeeler! Zeeler. Old Lady Zeeler! That was her name! [Laughing] That’s what he called her anyhow! Old Lady Zeeler. “Now,” he says, “you could tell her for a mile off, you can see her for a mile off; she sat big. And she’ll have a great, big, old, black coat on from the top of her head, right down dragging on the ground.” And he said, “If she comes out here,” he says, “you better come help me stop them. Because,” he says, “I don’t think the boss is going to get over there in time to go talk to her. She’ll take a shot at you!” Oh my Lord! I said, “Well where is Frank?” And he said, “He’s going around there right now, he ought to be around there pretty quick now.” He says, “He’ll be there by the time we get there, I’m sure. Let’s just hope that he gets to talk to her and get permission to get these cock-eyed cows in that corral tonight so we don’t have to night ride.” Well, we kept a going and we kept a going, and I didn’t think we was ever going to get there. I could see that one black spot, see that big, old ranch house sitting over there. And there was a little grove of willows in a little creek just between us and that ranch house and the willows weren’t very tall, but I could see the top of that house and there was that black spot. And I watched that black spot get bigger and bigger [laughing]. And I just could see old Keith – now he was holding the leaders up all he could, but he just about had them all. One time we got almost over there and then she stood up on the porch and you know what she had in her hand? A double-barrel shotgun. She pulled out from under that big, old, black coat and she aimed that right -- , “Let’s pull it up, let’s pull it up.” And boy, everything come to a halt. And Keith, he was sitting on his horse and wondering whether he was going to get shot or not, and so was I! And here come the boss – he finally made it there! Drove up into the yard, and then she knew who he was. So he talked to her and asked her, he said, “We’ve just had an awful time in this storm. I wonder if we could put these cows in corral tonight?” He says, “These guys, they’s give out, so’s their horses. They’re wet and cold. If we could just put them cows in the corral tonight,” he says, “we’ll be out of here at daylight in the morning.” “Well…I recon you can,” she says, “if you know how to open that gate. Is there any one of the three of you that knows how to open the gate?” Oh and Frank says, “You bet! I’ll get it open.” [Laughing] That old corral was made out of poles – I guess it had been there forever, you know. And that gate was, oh I guess almost 20 feet wide! A pole gate. Old Frank, you’d just about have to have a saddle horse and lariat rope and pull that gate around to get in, you know. And old Frank, he just worked on that until he was almost black in the face and I hollered out, “For Lord’s sake! Go over and help him get that gate open! These calves are going to get away from me!” So he did; he went over. He just dropped the rope on the end of the gate and helped Frank pull that gate open. And then we got them in and put them in that corral that night. You know what happened? He pulled that cheap cap right down there in front of that old girl’s – Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  31   �[End Tape 2: A; begin Tape 2: B] BM: Side 2. And we’re continuing with the Zeeler Ranch story. BH: The sheep wagon? JH: Those two guys, they just jumped in that truck and they said, “We’ll see you in the morning John.” And left me there. BH: With Lady Zeeler? JH: Yeah! So I had to get old Keith’s saddle horse and then she was still standing up there with that shotgun tucked under her arm, you know, watching the whole thing. BH: How old were you, Dad? JH: I don’t know, how old was I? BH: Were you married? JH: No! That was before we got married. Just about – we got married on the 16th day of May of – NH: I think that was – around the last part of April – JH: It was, it was. BM: This is after you got home from the war? JH: Oh yeah. BM: Okay. JH: That was the only job I could find. You couldn’t even buy a job when I got home. And me and my buddy, we had quite a stinker pulled on us out there. But that’s not the story! Anyway – BM: So wait, she’s got the shotgun, she still has it in hand and you’re alone on the ranch with her. JH: Yeah, that’s right. So I looked up at her and I went over and got that horse. She had a heck of a nice barn that hadn’t caved in yet. She had all kinds of sheds you know, all her sheds were all there, her colt sheds but they’d all caved in. And I didn’t know whether I’d dare go put the horses in the barn or not. Finally she said, “Well, are you going to go get the horse and put him up or just stand there?” “Yes ma’am.” [Laughing] So I went and Keith’s horse and took him over to the barn and she says, “I guess you can tell a barn Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  32   �from a lean-to?” “Yes ma’am.” “Now put them in there, make sure you give them some hay. There’s some hay in there. Them horses have worked all day and they look like it.” Anyway, I took care of the horses and come back over the camp and she said, “You got any dry wood at that camp?” I said, “I hope so.” And she said, “Enough to keep you warm tonight?” “Well, I think so.” “Alright,” she says, “alright, I guess you better get at it.” And she turned around and went in the house. And I went over and climbed in the tent and built a fire and got myself some supper and climbed in bed and had one hell of a bad sleep all night, worried about her and that double-barreled shotgun. [Laughing] And those two jerks never got back over there until 7 o’clock the next morning and we had a 20 mile trail to go yet! Thank heaven it had quit storming. BM: But the cow, you were able to put in a fenced enclosure so you don’t have to worry about them? JH: Yep, didn’t have to worry about them. Oh boy, I’ll tell you what! That was a life saver for me. When those guys got there and then we had that 20 mile trail to go and that was back toward that highway that comes from Evanston over to Kemmerer. BM: Okay. JH: Not in the middle of it, we would come up from the Zeeler Ranch and hit that highway. And then once we hit the highway, we had about 10 miles to go towards Kemmerer. And then there was a big cattle outfit just west of the highway there, and that’s where we went with them. And we took them up there and that man was a good friend of Frank’s, so he let us put in to pasture there for the rest of the day. And then he said, “You guys get out of here and go home. I’ll have my riders bring them out of the pasture,” he says, “if they need to come out. But I think they’re alright right there until tomorrow morning. Now Frank,” he says, “where is your branding irons and your tools and stuff?” Frank said, “Right here in the truck.” He said, “Well leave them, my boys ain’t got a thing to do tomorrow and we can take care of them cows tomorrow.” Then he said, “You guys can come back and help us push them up on the range,” he said, “the day after tomorrow and settle them down and distribute them.” BM: So they brand them and then they’re going to disperse them up here on the Cache? JH: No. Over in the Crawford mountains. BM: Oh, Crawfords. JH: Uh-huh. So that’s what we did. And the next day, why we was back over there. No! Next day they branded them and then it was the day after that we went over. And he had, oh, he had eight cowboys on his ranch. He had a big old ranch there – he had eight cowboys, Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  33   �and then there was just me and Keith and Frank joined them. We put the whole mass – I’ll bet we, well we had over 2,000 head of cattle. BM: Oh! JH: In that herd. And we pushed them up on that summer range of theirs over in the Crawfords. But then we had to pair up a lot of them to get different bunches. Then we just took them out and put them in different places over in there, in different pastures. Took all day. BM: And so you moved them and then you got them up and then had a day and then you moved them up into the Crawford Mountains. And then did his cowboys pretty much stay with them and work with them for the summer? JH: Well, a lot of the fellows over here in Randolph and Woodruff run cattle up in there and they all work together. So come roundup time, they all rounded at the same time. And I guess, according to that young son of ours (our youngest son, Mill), I guess come roundup time they had gala outfit going up there: work all day, then drink all night and play cards. [Laughing] NH: They still do! JH: Yeah, they still do. Our son-in-law runs cattle out there, and he’s a bishop – I don’t think he joined in with the boozing though. I don’t think he ever did much of that anyway! BM: Now was that the same time period – because you talked about getting the animals off the forest up here by September 10th. So were the Crawfords about the same time? JH: Yeah, um-hmm, ordinarily. BM: Okay. JH: There was a reason for that, it was a good one. Because you know, ordinarily your deer hunt came along in October, about the middle of October. And so to bring them off of there, by that time your feed is pretty well gone anyway. I’ve seen my dad come off the forest ten days quicker than that, just to make sure that he wasn’t going to have to go back over something they’d been over. They would come off about that time to get out of the way, so they would have time to go back up and ride for strays. He always got a good two weeks up here to get – and then you’d never get them all out. The snow has to drive them out. That was one of the reasons why we had to come off on the tenth day of September. Because they’d figured you’d had enough time to graze those animals, then you had time to go back up and make sure and ride for strays, because you’re always short. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  34   �BM: Now you mentioned going in that the foresters were there checking your numbers for your permit. JH: Yeah. BM: Were they also there when you came out? JH: There were times I ever saw when we came off that they counted us off. BM: Okay. JH: They never did count us off, no. I don’t know what they did with the other guys, the other herds of sheep; it was the same way with the cattle. No, they would count cattle, but ordinarily when I rode for this old fellow out here (I managed his ranch for a while) and he runs cows up here above the ridge. The forest ranger would come and tell you which gate to put them in on the forest reserve line fence. BM: Now which ridge is this that you’re talking about? JH: This is Long Ridge. BM: Long Ridge, okay. JH: Uh-huh; right above the Sweetwater Park. BM: Now, so the forester was there to direct you where they should go – which was the best pasture at that time? JH: They gave you a pasture to put them in. And that pasture was the one that you had for the summer. It was up to you to ride that pasture and make sure that your stock was there. You all worked together – you always had cattle get out and go on another guy’s pasture – so you worked together. And you’d go over and you’d pick up their strays in your pasture and take it back to them, and they’d bring theirs over to you. And they had a regular rider for the summer and he kind of watched out for that and helped you out, and then he did all the salting – they’d put all the salt out. BM: And how often was the salt put out? JH: Just whatever was needed. Now, that’s another thing that these people need to know. It’s crucial to a cattle operation – it’s not so bad for sheep because you carry your salt with you and put it in boxes for a night, you know. And then you’re not leaving a tromped down place. Well same way with those salt areas for cattle. That rider would go distribute so many blocks out in one pasture, because quite often he was always moving from one pasture to a new pasture. So he’d go and put that salt out – so many blocks that he figured that those cows was going to take for so many days. Then when it comes time to change that pasture, he’d go check on those salt grounds and if there was any salt left, he moved Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  35   �it. And moved it ahead to where he was going. And if you had a real good rider, why you know, you didn’t have to worry about it. You knew your cows had the salt in front of them that was needed, and there wasn’t excess stuff to bring excess cattle in at one time. BM: Now he’s carrying this on a pack horse? JH: Yeah. BM: And these are blocks? Like 50 pound blocks? JH: Um-hmm, yep. Regular, 50 pound block of salt. BM: Okay. JH: And if a certain cattle man wanted his cattle to have access to iodized block, he got the iodized block, and that particular cattleman furnished the block. BM: Oh, okay. So would the cattleman drop off the blocks and then the cowboy would come and pick them up and take them? JH: Yeah, mm-hmm, yeah. He’d distribute that right up here – I’m talking about, have you ever been up Temple Fork? BM: Yes. JH: Okay. Right up on the flat, right up on the flat they had a pretty good corral back there; made of poles tight enough so the livestock couldn’t get in, not even the elk or the deer. BM: Um-hmm. JH: The association would deliver the salt and whatever else was needed, to that point. And then that summer that range rider would go there to pick up what he needed. BM: Okay. JH: And if he had to go like south of there, you get over to (what’s it called?), Mud Lake? Or towards the Hardware Ranch? BM: Um-hmm. JH: Why, he’d have to bring his Jeep up (most generally they had the same rider there for years), knew what he was doing, he had a Jeep; he’d go load up the salt that he wanted to put on those other salt grounds and leave it there and then he’d come and get his horse and his pack horse and go distribute from there. Because it was too far to carry that salt on a horse’s back. Salts mean to blocks of salt to carry. And I’ve seen it wear a hole right in a horse’s back. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  36   �BM: Ooh. JH: So that’s the way they did things up there and it worked out good. This guy I worked with – it was KB Hansen that bought this old ranch out here. And I worked for him for four years. And he ran cattle down – and this is where I got to know a lot of the Cache Valley boys over there. I rode with them for three seasons up in there; all up in Temple Fork area and all through Tony Grove and all that area. Better bunch of guys I’ve never worked with. BM: So when you were up in those areas, what other kind of people did you see up in Logan Canyon and Temple Fork and Tony Grove? JH: At that time, I rarely saw anybody. Of course I wasn’t up there all of the time. I did go up and help that rider occasionally when he’d need some help; I’d throw my horse in the truck and go up and help him. If he had something that had got away and he needs some help, why I’d go up and help him and generally there would be a rider or two coming from Logan up. BM: A rider that was working cattle or sheep? JH: Yeah. One was salt man, one was a cattle owner. And we would get together and we would go get them put back together again for him. They were just a nice bunch of guys to work with. There was only one or two. One of those guys, you probably remember. Had all that trouble there west of Logan out there by the ball goal where that crossed the slough and got hit and killed that woman? BM: Yes! That was just in the last few years. JH: Yeah, about what? Two, three years ago? BM: Right, right. JH: I rolled with him all one fall – we just happened to get on the same crew at round-up time. And I’d never met a nicer guy than him! My gosh, you know! And when I read what was going on, what happened to him in the paper, I couldn’t believe it. And I got to thinking (because I didn’t know him very much) about that big, wide ball pit I guess you could say down that side of that road. And I’d see them cattle over in there – knew where they was – I even hauled a load of these cattle down at round-up time I guess it was last fall that I was up there and rode with them. He had one load too many that he could load and they would have had to stay there in the corral up there all night and half the next day. So I told him, I said, “Well, I’ve only got five head up here.” And, I said “Criminy I can load them myself when I come back. I’ll just throw them in the truck and follow you down there and we’ll have them down there.” Well, you’d have thought I’d done him the biggest favor in the world! I don’t know that I did. I just came back and loaded our two or three in the truck, it was a simple matter. We had a real good corral there. Of course I was all alone, and then I had to lock up everything before I left! [Laughing] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  37   �BM: Where was this corral again? JH: What is it they call it? It’s down towards the bottom of Tony there. You know where the new highway ended off? BM: Um-hmm. JH: Okay. Then you go down the road there about, oh what? About three quarters of a mile. So on the right-hand side of the road, and I want to call it Bunchgrass, but the Bunchgrass pasture is back up toward the north – BM: So you’re not in Franklin Basin are you? JH: Nope, not quite. You know where Red Banks picnic ground is? BM: Oh sure! Sure. JH: Okay, well Bunchgrass is just south of that picnic ground, back up in the timber there. BM: Okay. JH: They’re quite a ways up there. It goes clear back up there almost to Tony Lake. BM: Hmm. JH: That Bunchgrass, sometimes you could hardly ride a horse through the cock-eyed stuff. Anyway, that’s where their corral was at. And I guess I haven’t seen it for years and years and years, but they still use it I know in the fall of the year. BM: Can I ask you a question about predators? When you were working with cattle and if there was a problem with predators and what they might have been? And did anybody help you with predator issues? JH: Not with cattle. We didn’t have any predator problems. In earlier years, before Dad got into range cows, when there was so many coyotes the cattlemen over there – where the highways hits just before you get to Bear River there’s Sage Creek Junction. BM: Yes. JH: Well okay. Some of those cattlemen there was having as much trouble with the coyotes and their newborn calves as we was having with the coyotes up there and the sheep. Oh man, there was coyotes anywhere you wanted to look. And the government, they had trappers out. There was two old men here that trapped coyotes for years; I can remember them both. They trapped coyotes, they’d shoot them, whatever it took. BM: Um-hmm. Did they do something with the skins? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  38   �JH: Yeah, yeah. They’d skin them out and they sold those coyote pelts – this was back pretty much in the days of the Depression when (just to give you an example), my mother used to give us kids one egg a piece when we went to school in the morning, once in a while. And the Hodge’s Cache Store was right across the road from where the church office still is. Well, she’d give us an egg a piece and we’d go in there and we could get a nickel’s worth of candy. BM: [Laughing] And trade for the egg? JH: Yeah, in place of the egg. So now, there’s what you were faced with here. Her [wife] and I, we lived through that. This is something else that these same people that you’re talking about, don’t know the first thing about. And you know, when I stop and think about it now, the people here worked together. All of them are farmers and they all had gardens. All the women, right down to some of the smallest little girls you’ve ever seen that couldn’t twist a lid on a bottle, knew how to bottle deer meat, or anything else. And they all worked, you know. I got one of them out here – that’s how she learned to bottle. She lived through it same time I did. If Mom and Dad didn’t teach that to them kids, you know (and I know they did). If those kids nowadays, that were kids then don’t teach that to their kids, they ought to have a hold of your head. Because at least you can live. We’ve got a real bad situation on our hands here. And you know and it’s going to get worse. Just as a little example, buying my groceries down here to Montpelier and in three weeks what I used to buy down there, the same articles that cost me $50 bucks, right on the scratch, yesterday cost me $71.63. That’s how much they jumped down there. Well, that’s where we’re going and you know, you talk about these people that need to know how to take care of your ranges and boy, I couldn’t agree with you more! And thank heaven we’ve got people like you who are willing to teach them. You know, if we were taught more about how we went through that in those days – my dad was one of the handiest men you ever saw (I know I’m bragging about him). BM: He was a good person though. JH: He could do just about anything. He built this home for us. He was a good carpenter; he was a good blacksmith shop; he could forge weld. He could build horseshoes from scratch – just whatever you wanted. He taught me and my brother everything that he could teach us. BM: And you’re probably very proud of what he could do too. JH: I’ll say. And he was awful particular about his work. That’s where we’re at today. We need more people to pass that lesson on to their children and their grandchildren. Now I’ve got granddaughters – two of the best articles I ever wanted to have canned: corn is one and deer meat the other. My mother used to cut the corn off the cob and I used to help her. And I right behind my house here that my grandmother used to use for the same purpose was a summer kitchen, with a big, old wood stove in it, you know. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  39   �BM: Um-hmm, sure. JH: And she did all of her canning out there. And Mother would take the sheets off of her bed and put on the top of that roof (it had a little gradual slope to it). And we cut the kernels of corn off of them cobs of corn and by the bucketful she would take it up there and spread it out. And then I had the job – BM: So she would dry it in the sun? JH: Yeah. Sun dried. And then I had the job of keeping the magpies off! [Laughing] JH: Oh man! BH: How did you do that? JH: Well, we had to pick of rocks out of the corn a time or two – [laughing] I used a flipper on them. I was a dead shot with a flipper, I’ll have to admit! [Laughing] She sun-dried that corn and then she put that corn in a bottle, screw the lid on tight and then come deer hunting time, why dad would always get a deer. And she took that meat and cut it up in little squares (about so square) – BM: Uh-huh. JH: And then she bottled. Well, you never had a better combination of something wonderful to eat – she took that corn and made gravy out of it and then she mixed that deer meat with it. And she would pull that deer meat apart with a fork. And oh, boy! You could just bust! BM: Oh, that sounds excellent. JH: It was really good you know. Those people in those days knew how to live. BM: They did; very talented. JH: You know what we got today – I know this is going to be a little bit off of what you were wanting, but I have to bring this to your attention. You know, I had a lady in here the other day; she’d bring us quilts for Noreen to hem. A real nice gal – she’s a little bit older than I am. I am coming 85 and I think Marie would be probably like about 87. (Whispering: One of the most staunchest democrats you’ve ever seen in your life.) And she sat here talking to Noreen. And she got to talking about what was going on here with President Obama. And I was just sitting here in the chair watching her. And finally I said to her, I said, “Well,” (she was talking about the fighting between the democrats and the republicans). I said, “Well you know Marie the best cock-eyed” [tape ends] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  40   �[End Tape 2: B; begin Tape 3: A] BM: Three, side one. Alright finish with the democrat. JH: She said, “What did you say?” I said, “Marie, the best thing that ever happened to this nation was World War II.” [She said] “I can’t understand how you can think that! Look at all the people and our boys from home that was killed and mangled in that war.” And I said, “Marie,” I said, “I was right with them.” “Well how do you figure that?” And I said, “You tell me this, Mrs. Democrat,” [laughing] I said, “When did you ever see the democrats and the republicans get along better than they did then?” NH: Oh, you said the wrong thing to him there! [Laughing] JH: And she thought and she thought and then she looked at me and she was waiting for me, I guess to say some more. I told her, I said, “You’ve never seen politics go out the window so fast in all your life. You’re going to have to admit it. Democrats worked with republicans and republicans worked with democrats because they didn’t have no choice in the matter! We was broke, just like we are now, and a whole cock-eyed world to fight this war in and how are you going to do it? Everybody pulled together. Everybody, because it was death staring them right in the face.” So I said, “And I hate to think that’s what’s going to happen here, but I’m just scared to death if they bring them kids out over there now those murderers are going to follow them right to our shores and we’re going to be worse off than we ever was!” That’s what’s scaring me. “And one of the biggest problems there,” I said, “now we have got a lot of people at the head of our government” (just like these young people that you was talking about), “that think they know, but they haven’t got the experience to handle. So the rest of us are going to have to get behind them and do something about it.” BM: Um-hmm. And they haven’t been destitute; they haven’t been challenged in that way. JH: Yeah. NH: We’re all going to have to get together and find a boat of some kind and put Obama on it and send it across the ocean – [Laughing] JH: And a few more people to go with him! [Laughing] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  41   �BM: Okay. Let’s stop there for – it smells like lunch to me. [Stop and start recording] BM: Okay we are continuing with our tape after lunch, here with John Hansen in Garden City. And we’re going to continue with some of his earliest memories of Logan Canyon. So, John. JH: I guess the earliest that I can ever remember of Logan Canyon was a mighty long time ago. I think I was probably right around six or seven years old. But the earliest thing I can remember about Logan Canyon, down the canyon very well, would have been right down at the bottom of the canyon where you come around that first sharp curve where the city water line used to come down and cross the road there. BM: So this is on the Logan side? JH: Yeah, uh-huh. They had just started to widen the road out and they had a steam shovel there working (and some other equipment). And I’ve been trying to remember the name of that company. They were a Logan company that was there. It wasn’t Johnsons, but it was another company from Logan. We’d been to Logan, been downtown and was coming home and we come around that curve and there was that steam shovel working there. And he was loading a truck. So we had to stop and wait for him to finish loading that truck so we could get by him. At that time, most of the rest of the road clear through the whole canyon was nothing much more than a wagon track, it was so narrow. Most places you had to pull over and stop and let the other guy go by you. And on the curves, the same way: you’d go around those curves awfully slow. I can remember that road up through there so well, and especially that particular time because that was the first time in my life I’d ever seen a steam shovel. I’d heard about them, you know, going to school and all that. BM: Wait a minute, before you go on. The road, the texture of the road at this time was dirt? JH: Yeah. BM: And one lane? JH: Well, you could call it about a lane and a half [laughing]. And it was all the way through right down to Garden City. So many places you just have to stop and move over and let the other guy go by you, or some places or a lot of places of course, why you could pass each other but you had to be awful cheerful about it. BM: How did you get through in the winter time? Wasn’t it muddy? JH: It was closed. That road was closed all winter. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  42   �BM: Oh, okay. JH: They never started keeping that road open (now don’t quote me on this, because I can’t remember for sure), but when they first started keeping that open I think it was right around 1938 when they first started to get the equipment to keep it open. For one thing, they needed those snow throwers real bad because the canyon would close so quick. They were in short demand and so that kind of hampered the opening of the road, you know, to keep it open. The first workers from Garden City that worked for the State of Utah on this side, kept that road open through the winter from Garden City, down to the Temple Fork (let’s see, it would’ve been down below Temple Fork by quite a little bit); right down where the new wide highway goes on down the – that’s where the guys from this side had to keep it open. Because the machinery on the other side – from there on down into Logan – had all of Logan and Logan area to do. The two men in Garden City was Ross Hodges and (oh, what the heck was his name?) and Lamont Schofield. They were the two first men to go to work for the State to keep that road going through the winter. And they would work all day until late at night and then they would hope that they could get back up to the road shed to get it open in the mornings. BM: So they stayed in the road shed at night? JH: No, they came home. BM: Oh, they did? JH: Um-hmm, yeah they came home. And then they found out that wasn’t going to work very good. So then they had to put on a second crew from Logan that came up. And then they’d change shifts. They had people working that road the clock around. They had people getting hung up in the drifts before these guys could get back the next morning. And a time or two they couldn’t even get in, they had to walk. BM: Where did they walk to? JH: Well, they could generally get up to where the overlook area is. They could get that far in that area with their cars, and then they had to walk from there, clear down to the road shed. In all that deep snow, that took a lot of time. So they put on two shifts. And that’s the way it’s been ever since and I think they have done an immaculate job on it all the time. I don’t know of anybody that’s ever had a lot of problems. You’re going to get snow blowing across that road and some of those cuts in no matter what you do. So I’m sure those fellows have had both hands busy to keep that road open, you know. I think that they did a good job. Of course they’ve had several different crews since that time. But to get back down to the canyon itself, why I can remember coming up through there in a car when I was of a young age, you know. Going through to Logan and back, or wherever. Especially after a rainstorm or in the fall of the year, the mud (because there was no surface on it, just a gravel road), you could get stuck pretty easy. But I can remember doing that. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  43   �And in much later years, why I didn’t have all that much to do down in the canyon itself for a long time, until after we was married I guess. Our next door neighbor over here and I, we just love to fish. And we’d put our families together on a Saturday night or a Saturday morning and take our eats and stuff and go over there just above the Red Banks. You know where they built that new house crossed, on the west side of the highway? BM: Right. JH: Well there was a good little campground there and we had fixed up a place, dug a fire pit and rocked it all up right nice, and Noreen and our good neighbor over there, those two women would get together and Dad still had a couple of his Dutch ovens left. And I’d go get them and we’d go up there to fish. And we would fish right from, well from above there, quite a ways above there; almost up to the confluence of the Beaver and the Logan rivers. And we’d fish clear down below the Red Banks. And then we’d go back up there and then ordinarily we’d have all the fish we was entitled to. And then sometimes when things got crowded there, why, we went down there one time (he and I just went the two of us), that was on Saturday; I’d see that little creek coming in down there just above the Red Bank (which was White Pine and I think you mentioned that). BM: Um-hmm, um-hmm. JH: And I was standing there where that was flowing in to the river and all of a sudden I could see some pretty nice fish going up. About like that, just real nice pan size. And I got to wondering how far up there those little suckers would go. So I told Dave about it – he was on the other side of the creek. So he came across and we started up there (and this would have been about four o’clock in the afternoon I guess, when we started up White Pine); we was getting more fish than we had any right to have at all, so we was just throwing them back. And we got to wondering just how far up there it did go. Well we didn’t know it went all the way up to White Pine Lake. So by the time we got up there it was getting pretty close to dark and going up across that little sagebrush flat – just below – why, that channel was so deep. I guess it would have been about waist deep on me if I would have fell in it. And there was them cutthroats about like – you could dangle anything you wanted to put right down on their nose and they would just not pay any attention to that at all. I don’t think we caught one fish up there. [Laughing] The next time we went up, we went all the way up and the same thing happened, right at the same place. I don’t know where all them fish was getting all their feed from, but boy there was big, fat ones and you couldn’t get them to bite! No sir. So I tried the treble hook just to see if I could get one. And I finally did get one. And boy, it was a nice fish and just as fat as he could be. And that’s the only fish we ever got out of there! BM: The only fish, oh! And that was a cutthroat trout? JH: That was a cutthroat trout, yep. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  44   �BM: Okay. That’s a very special population up there. JH: Yeah, um-hmm. BM: Wow, those are beautiful fish. JH: But talk about beautiful country, boy we’ve got it in this state. Anywhere you want to go. And it just seems so nice to be able to get in a place like that, you know and enjoy yourself. BM: And so close to your home. JH: Yeah, right. Close to home. And then we got acquainted with quite a few of the boys that came from Logan to fish up there – from just anywhere in Cache Valley. A whole lot of the fishermen that we saw were Japanese people. Just a whole lot of them. BM: Hmm. Why was that? JH: Well, that fish and rice are the major food stuff that the Japanese people over there eat. Fish and rice. I guess you could smell a Japanese soldier a good 20 feet away from you. You could smell him. And I guess maybe that a lot of bearing on the case. Now rice in the Philippines is one of their major crops. And they harvest that rice – they thresh it, just like we did wheat here, same old thresher. And the Japanese they would take that away from those people. They grow that and they would wait for that rice to ripen to the point where it was ready to thresh. They even stacked it in round stacks like we used to do here. And pull those old separators up the side of them. Gosh they had those big, old rice patties just covered with them. And the Philippine people got very little of it. Now there’s one thing I would like to tell you about and I don’t know whether you’d like to include it in this. BM: Let’s look where we are here. Good to go. JH: What I saw over there – BM: Over there, you mean in your World War II – JH: Yeah. BM: Okay. JH: What I saw over there, it would break your heart. Did us. I got shot up a little bit and I was sent back to a hospital. The other major Philippine island is Lety. Our people had already cleared Lety Island. BM: Now how do you spell that? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  45   �JH: L-E-T-Y (I think that’s it). I think it’s L-E-T-Y. BM: Okay. JH: And they had set up a real big area base hospital there. Well that’s where I wound up; they flew me clear down there – me and a plane load of other guys. We’re right on the south side of that – now this hospital is sitting right down on the beach. And there’s a big, high chain-linked fence. I bet that thing was a good 20 feet high. When we came in there in those ambulances and we got out, why that chain-link fence was about 50 feet away from the military hospital. And I’m bringing this to your attention so you can get an idea. Now there were MPs walking up and down that fence. And I was wondering, and I seen these signs and wanted to get out of the ambulance. I was close enough I could read one of those signs and it says, “Do not feed the prisoners. Do not feed the prisoners.” In big, bold, black letters. You couldn’t miss it. I went, “Prisoners? I didn’t know they would have a prison down here.” Now at that same time our boys had come into Manila. And what had happened, they had got into that big Japanese prison camp and they had freed all those people that are inside there. And 99% of them were women and children. And that was inside of that compound. And looking at what was over there would break your heart. That’s one thing I need to tell you is that the old American soldier has got a heart bigger than a lard bucket. And if anything is going to get to him it will be what is happening, especially to little children. There’s nothing but a bunch of skeletons walking around over there. You see every bone in their body. And had we fed them, had we gave them so much as chewing gum, it would have killed them on the spot. Because they had not been there, but just a matter of hours at that particular time (is the way they explained it to us). They made sure they we wasn’t going to be giving them anything because up in our battle zone when we’d run across them little kids, you know, we used to get those tropical candy Hershey bars (about that long and about so wide) and them little kids up there, they would come around and just, “Chocoletto-zho, chocoletto-zho.” And they were in our crations. So we’d give them a candy bar once in a while, you know. So that’s what I saw down there. I was down there for (what was it?), nearly three weeks before I could get this leg back under me. BM: Which leg was injured? JH: This one. BM: Okay, your left leg. JH: Uh-huh. Bullet went right down here and come out down here. My buddy stepped up behind me and took the sole off his boot, went through my leg and clipped the under sole off of his boot – he stepped that close to me. Wow. BM: Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  46   �JH: Then that was the only place in all my three years that I ever saw the LDS Church advertised. BM: Hmm. JH: That would be quite a little story, so you probably wouldn’t want to hear that. I get to church, but I had to wait a [inaudible] to do it. [Laughing] JH: And I’d only been there for four days, something like that I guess, when that happened. BM: Wow. I can’t imagine coming from a place like here and being raised on a farm, and your family around you and the kinds of things you saw here – even though it was during the Depression – and then having that kind of experience. JH: It was horrible. It was one of the most horrible things. But that was only half of it. I saw some of the worst of it, right up there in the Nagoya, Japan. BM: Mm-hmm. JH: After we had gotten settled, we were using Japanese quarters and everything, and kitchens – their buildings. And so you’d go to chow and go through the chow line with your mess gear, and you’d pick up your chow and go sit down to a table. And when you got through they had eight open-top barrels with planes under them outside. Well there was four of them that you scraped your mess gear out in those barrels, and then on the end where the boiling water was and everything, there’s where you washed your mess gear and then took them back to your quarters and hung them up to dry. Well, we got there (it was just, I guess somewhere around the fifth of September when we pulled in there), so it was pretty good weather. Well the first time we ate and came out there to scrape our gear out and wash them, all four of those open-top barrels had little Japanese kids standing there going through what used to be pig swill. Their clothes hung on them like there was just nothing but a pole inside. No shoes on their feet and nothing on their head. And then here would come the adults and run a competition and they were fighting over the contents of the barrels, what we would scrape off in there. Enough to turn your stomach, those poor little kids. Well, we hadn’t been there very long, the next thing you knew the mess sergeant was complaining he was having to go through too much food, too many groceries. So the company commander, he decided he better find out what was going on, so he went into the mess hall, collected all the KPs and the table waiters and the cooks and he really had a chat with them. Well, they were putting it out where they were supposed to, and putting on the mess gear as we would come through the line. Well, yeah, but those guys are loading up their mess gear more than they ever did before. We never seen them load it up like that in our lives. And those little kids would come over you know, with just about Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  47   �any kind of a plate or something that they could find. And so we would go along and we would just scrape off half of what we had. When the Army found that out, boy I’ll tell you, they brought that to a halt in a hurry! So then they put up a big, high chain-link fence to keep them out. And later on when it started to snow, the first time it snowed it dropped a foot of snow. BM: Oh, gee. JH: Here was them kids over there, coming down to those barrels and hanging their little fingers in those chain-link fences and looking over there so . . . [End Tape 3:A; begin Tape 3: B] BM: [Tape 3: Side] Two. Go ahead. JH: There go battle-hardened soldiers standing there with tears running out of their eyes and dripping down off their chin. So we all of us got in touch – well all of us non-coms we got a hold of the company commander and asked him to have a talk with him, which we did. What can be done about it? And he said, “This is military gentlemen. You know as well as I do,” and he says, “we’re having trouble. There’s enough trouble and expense of getting food in here to you guys to get the job done. If you’re going to part with food like that, we just can’t afford it for one thing.” And he says, “You’re never going to fill them kids up.” Well who is? [And, he said] “That’s the Japanese people’s problem and you’re not to mix in it.” Then when I’d go out on my tour of duty, my riot patrol, we’d go by some of those little grade schools, you know, and see the same thing: them little kids. And the teachers just come right out and gather them little kids up and push them up to the school house. When you’d see them, why they’d be out just like our kids, you know, for recess. And it took almost three weeks before I could stop my squad from beside that fence and get those teachers to say one word to me. We had a whole bunch of those cock-eyed little bars – BM: These are the chocolate bars? JH: Yeah, the little chocolate bars. I’d gone over to the kitchen and swiped a couple of cartons. BM: [Laughing] JH: I did. [Laughing] I wanted to make friends with them kids, you know. My squad contained eight men, plus myself. And six of them was back in that squad truck behind me. I made them stay there, and my Jeep driver – I made him stay in the seat of the Jeep and I got out and walked over there with my pocket full of them. This one teacher – she’d seen enough of us and we hadn’t done any problems there, so I talked to her. I said, “Did you happen to speak English?” I knew a little Japanese, but I Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  48   �you know, I didn’t know all that much. And she said in just as plain of English as you could get, “Yes, I do.” And so I told her, I said, “I have some of our rations, little candy bars. They’re Tropical Hershey’s candy bars and they’re made by Hershey company. I’m sure you know about Hershey’s chocolate bars.” And she said, “Yes, I do.” I said, “Well I would like to give them little kids one of these bars.” I guess there must have been about 30 little kids that was in that class. The next thing I knew, here come two more teachers down there. I guess they got to wondering what was going on, you know. So they come down to see what was going on. So them three got their heads together and they decided to let me pass out a bar to them kids. So I got in the back of the Jeep and opened up one of them boxes and took it over there. And I passed out a little candy bar to each one of them little kids and then I handed all the teachers one. I ate one myself, to start with so they would know it was alright to eat. Well after that when I’d go by, “Chocoletto-zho.” [Laughing] BM: Were you able to do that again? Sharing chocolate with them? JH: Yeah. BM: Oh, that’s nice. JH: Yeah. I got my squad all together and I said, “Now it ain’t right that we just go and steal these chocolates over there.” So we pooled our money and bought them. And that wasn’t the only school. On that 40 square miles there was about four little grade schools on it and one high school. But around that high school I never saw anything but a little bit older Japanese boys that would’ve been maybe 14. But you didn’t see a girl, not a girl. It was quite a thing. BM: And this was in Nagoya, Japan? JH: This was Nagoya, Japan. Yeah. BM: So you were in the Philippines first, and then in Nagoya – JH: Um-hmm. BM: And then your job in Nagoya was what again? JH: I was a riot patrol sergeant. BM: Okay. Which means what? JH: Huh? Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  49   �BM: Which means what? What does it mean? What’s the job? JH: Oh. To make sure that there is no riots going on in the area. Because we didn’t know, you know, how they was going to receive us. For a long time you still didn’t know what was going on, especially in that area where they’d use those incendiaries and burn everything to the ground. You know, you’d have to naturally consider the fact that feelings wasn’t going to be very good about you. So that’s what the deal was. We never did have any problems. This boy that I showed you here (my old buddy) – he had a squad, you know. He had a different district than I had. He ran in to the same thing that I did. He had just an open heart as I did. Then we had another buddy from Iowa, that the three of us were occupying the same room together and all three of us were riot patrol sergeants and they had their district, same as I did. We all had similar kind of situation. The Japanese people could speak better English than we could. BM: Hmm. JH: The whole big bunch of them. There were very few of them you ever ran across that couldn’t speak much English. BM: Um-hmm. How many people were from your area that you were over there with? From Utah – JH: From Utah? BM: Or even from this northern Utah area? JH: Well, from Utah there was seven of us in that one assault battalion. And we spearheaded every lousy battle that we had in there in Luzon. We was the first ones on [inaudible] beach head. One of them was from Moab, down here. The other one was from Manila – they’re both gone. The one from Moab, he wound up – his family is down here in Sandy. And he passed away here, it’s been not quite a year now since he’s been gone. And the other one has been gone a year. And those are all I know of from around here anywhere. BM: Were they coming from similar backgrounds? When you think of the people you served with, were they similar kids as far as farm boys or ranch? JH: Yeah, quite a bit of them. Most of them were. Most of them in that outfit were. The outfit we belonged to was a 25th Infantry Division. And their home base is Schofield barracks within a 15 minute bicycle ride of Pearl Harbor. That division is regular Army. And we was sworn into the regular Army and they can keep you just as long as they think you’ve got anything that they need. My commander wanted me to ship over for two more years. And I told him, “Nope.” I said, “I’ve had enough of the Army. I’ve had enough of the fighting. I’m going back home over in that little valley that I know of and the surrounding areas where they grow the most beautiful girls you’ve ever seen. I’m going to find me a Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  50   �mate, and the next thing I’m going to do is I’m going to get me a horse. And get that sucker so I can climb up in that seat and look in between his ears and get out on a range where nobody can bother me.” BM: [Laughing] JH: And he looked at me. He was from Texas, he was from Dallas, Texas and he came off of a ranch too, the louse. Well, that’s when we was coming home on points. I think I had 58 points. BM: Wait. So what does on “points” mean? JH: Well, points they give you for your accomplishments in the military anywhere. Chiefly your battles that you were in, and your citations. I had three Bronze Stars; I went from a PSE to a Buck Sergeant in 15 minutes. And that was under a heavy battle. I was still packing a radio. BM: Because you were in communications? JH: Pardon? BM: Because you were trained in communications? JH: Yeah, um-hmm. I was still in communications. When we went up to Luzon to battle, I’d never seen a radio before, but I’d seen machine guns and I’d been around machine guns in basic training. So they attached me to a machine gun squad. And on this particular time I’d been with that squad for a couple of months. The squad leader got shot through the neck (right there, a bullet). Just shot him wide open while I was standing right there talking to him with my radio in my hand to transfer a message from him to the company commander. I was standing there trying to talk in it, all of a sudden pop! And something hot hit me, went down my throat, and all in my eyes – I couldn’t see. I couldn’t hardly hand on to that radio receiver, and I couldn’t imagine what in the sam-hell had happened. And Dave, he just hurled. And then I realized what had happened, you know. “Pressure point, pressure point, pressure point Hansen!” I tried to find it up there, couldn’t find it. I had to go up on his fatigue jacket and get up here in his armpit and I was lucky enough to find it. And then I was screaming and hollering for an aid man because he was bleeding so bad. Now I was having to hold him and tried to move him over so I could get him to go down so that sniper wasn’t going to get us again. Here, a brand-new squad of fresh little high school seniors that had come up to that squad that morning and didn’t know doodlysquat about combat. Nothing. Both guns sitting out in the wide open in a bad place and we had a banzai attack coming down the hill up there, 500 yards away. Well, anyway I hollered at those kids and told them to get them guns pulled back and get them up where I was standing and they just stood there and looked at me. About that time the captain come on and he said, “Hansen,” (it was a rare occasion you ever heard that man swear, Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  51   �but boy he had some choice words that morning!), “what in the blankety-blank-blank is going on up there?” And so I told him what had happened. Now he said, “You listen to me and you make damn sure you listen carefully. Because what I’ve got to tell you,” he said, “is going to mean that you’re going to have to dig in here. Get that radio,” he said, “take over that squad immediately, and get them a moving. Even as I speak,” he said, “you have a battle line under fire promotion from PFC to Sergeant. That’s your squad from here on out buddy, and you make it work!” BM: And did you still have this guy? JH: I still had him, trying to get him down. Well at that time the K Company’s aid men heard me and he come a hoofing up there. One of their first lieutenants (he was only about 20 feet away from me) and he had both hands full with his people. Then he dropped them and come up to help me get him down. So anyway, got that all took care of. And him and an aid man took David over and took him down. We were working on a real rocky, awful, nasty spot. We called it the “iron head.” You couldn’t dig a hole. And I turned and those kids were still standing there. This one kid I said, “If you don’t get them guns back up here, you’re going to wish to blankety-blank that you did. You see them Japs coming down up there? You’re out in the wide open!” And two of them had came in the night before and it was the only two that he had in his squad at that time. The other five had come up that morning. This one kid stood there and he said, “Well, I don’t know who you think you are,” he says, “I had military training in high school, I just graduated from it,” he says, “I don’t know why you can throw over at me.” And I said, “Mister, one more word out of you without I see action and you’re going to find out about it. Get a move on!” And he just stood there, just cocky – I couldn’t let him get away with it. When you’re under orders when that happens, you take action, you take that man out. So I pulled my .45 out, jacked her back, calm, walked down, knocked his helmet off, smacked him right on the side of the face there. And I mean I put him down. You’re told to kill them, don’t monkey with them. Well, I didn’t want to do that, but I knew I had to get him out of the way. When I did that I got some action out of the rest of them! BM: You got everybody psyched. JH: Yeah. So we got both guns back down where I could get a feel of the fire form, and then I had to go drag him out along the way, because he was right square where I had to have that ledge to go along the ground when he crawled up on you. Well I walked up to him and hoped he didn’t get hit, backed up and got my arms under his boot heels like that and under my arms, and I just dragged him down to where the rest of them were, his head’s a bouncing. I thought he was dead and took him down and the K Company’s lieutenant says, “Is he dead?” And I said, “I don’t know, and I don’t much care. I haven’t got the time, I’ve got to get these guys set up.” And then I just pulled my canteen out (and that’s one thing you very rarely had, was enough water). I just dumped that canteen in his face and started washing him. And pretty soon he started showing some signs of life. The Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  52   �lieutenant, he walked over, took the cork off his and dumped it on him. And between the two of us we got him a going. Well, to make a long story a little shorter, he turned out to be the best man we had in the squad. When I left I recommended him to take my place. BM: Oh. That’s great. Well you’re a leader and a teacher with that, you know. JH: Well, that’s your job and boy, you better do it because if you don’t, they will. BM: Yep. And then you came back? JH: Yeah. BM: And you got back on your horse? And got married? JH: Yep, I did. I did. BM: What is the date of that? JH: Well we were married on the sixteenth day of August, 1946. BM: Oh. Okay. JH: I don’t think I’d been home – I don’t think I’d been home much more than a month. And the funny part of it is I hadn’t ever dated her! I graduated school down there, the same school she was and one of my best buddies that lived in Ogden come up here and he was dating her when he come up. And I was dating her best buddy! [Laughing] BM: The old switcheroo there! JH: Oh, yeah! [Laughing] Interesting! BM: And then you both moved in here. JH: Yeah. BM: Okay. Well I think at this point, what we ought to do is stop because we’re just about at the end of this tape. And what I’d like to do is next time we get to talk, I’d like to pick up from that point. JH: Okay. Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  53   �BM: Okay? And then we also want to interview a little more on, definitely on the veterans and the World War II. I want to separate those two. But I am going to stop you here just because we’re about to run out of tape, and I am out of tapes! [Laughing] JH: You’ve got as far as you can go, I don’t want to overrun you! BM: You’re fine! You’re fine. This has been wonderful. Is there anything you want to say in closing, before we sign off for today? JH: Well I would have this to say to your students, as I understand it. Listen to your teacher and listen to your old people. Go and ask them some questions; don’t be afraid to go ask them questions. When I came home, nobody knew anything about – well, they knew where I’d been, but I just couldn’t talk about it. I didn’t talk about it until I had half of my children here. And then the thing that knocked me to, was the simple fact: history wasn’t being taught. Sports had all of a sudden taken place of history that these people nowadays need to know about. Because I am just scared to death their going to take a good look at her. And if you don’t know anything about it, you’re the first one’s to run. So I would say to them, learn all you can from your elders and your teachers; if they’re willing to teach you, listen to them. Then you’ll be a whole lot better off, and so will the nation. BM: Okay. JH: I guess that’s it. BM: Well thank you very much. This has been delightful. To be continued. JH: To be continued? Okay! [Stop recording] Land  Use  Management  Oral  History  Project:  John  Hansen     Page  54   � Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Where else is this found? Give the URL for the item, if it is in another respository (like CONTENTdm) <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/LoganCanyon/id/322">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/LoganCanyon/id/322</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Hosted by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Conversion Specs Recording equipment: Radio Shack Cassette Recorder: CTR-122 Transcription equipment: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2013-01-17 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource John K. Hansen interview, 12 March 2009, and transcription Description An account of the resource Mr. Hansen talks about growing up in Garden City, Utah, and his earliest memories of Logan Canyon, three years in the South Pacific during World War II, 18 years in highway construction with W.W. Clyde and Company over in Springville, Utah, returning to Garden City to take over family sheep ranch. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hansen, John K., 1924- Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Middleton, Barbara Subject The topic of the resource Hansen, John K., 1924---Interviews Hansen, John K., 1924---Family Garden City (Utah)--History Sheep ranchers--Utah--Garden City Sheep--Utah--History Sheepherding--Utah--Rich County Sheepherding--Utah--Logan Canyon Ranching--Utah--Garden City--History Ranch life--Utah--Garden City Grazing--Utah--Logan Canyon Range management--Utah--Logan Canyon Cattle herding--Utah Cattle herding--Wyoming Ranchers--Utah--Biography Roads--Utah--Logan Canyon--Maintenance and repair Fishing--Utah--Logan Canyon World War, 1939-1945--Personal narratives Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Oral history Interviews Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Bear Lake (Utah and Idaho) Cache National Forest (Utah and Idaho) Logan Canyon (Utah) Tony Grove (Utah) Plain City (Utah) Randolf (Utah) Woodruff (Utah) Temple Fork (Utah) White Pine Lake (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Utah United States Garden City (Utah) Rich County (Utah) Utah United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1940-1949 1950-1959 1960-1969 1970-1979 1980-1989 1990-1999 20th century 2000-2009 21st century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections & Archives, Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection, FOLK COLL 42 Box 3 Fd. 3 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Inventory for the Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection can be found at: <a href="http://library.usu.edu/folklo/folkarchive/FolkColl42.php">http://library.usu.edu/folklo/folkarchive/FolkColl42.php</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Fife Folklore Archives Curator, phone (435) 797-3493 Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Logan Canyon Land Use Management Oral History Collection Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource audio/mp3 Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context FolkColl42bx2fd3JohnKHansen Date Created Date of creation of the resource. 12 March 2009 Date Modified Date on which the resource was changed. 2009-03-29 Is Version Of A related resource of which the described resource is a version, edition, or adaptation. Changes in version imply substantive changes in content rather than differences in format. Logan Canyon Reflections https://highway89.org/files/original/516f3269d1309e4f38dc15ab6b5bdca3.pdf 47f0c9d95fa38a6db816f6108d0e50a0 PDF Text Text �nferi. ';ty , regardless of the avenue :hey ~.'-.ive c hosen to follow . Som ~ couples m e r~ly need infornation or referrals; others feel alone ..vith their grief and need the companionship of other people who have bee' in the same situation: If you, or sumeone you know, could benefit from these services, call Resolve, 1-350-8807. t1 I • , ~~atn1€ , ,_ ...... _ J'Resolve ol,-Utah ::t I - J / ~ t-4- • ,rn...d--'~ t :r Adult fables ,.. Editor: Adult Fable No.1: Once upon a time in a small town called Smithfield, there were very old , large trees on both sides of Main Street. Long branches covered the o utside lane of traffic and sidewalks . Experts were called and a study was made. The little city wac:; advised the trees needed to be drastically pruned for best results. The n came the "pecking :hickens ." "Leave the trees alo ne. The trees Alill 'die, sca red for life , fo.ols . I want ny way~ " The littl e to'.vn was right. They impl :> me nt ed the plan that was best We are now proud of our park -for th e c it y. Now the- tr.ees are --':.,;,.. -trout in the~tTea m, covered plc ni.c beau tiful a nd mojes tiC , and eac h tr~e a reas, love ly planted freeS and grass, . can say , "Someone cared for me." grounds, foot bridge, fine, clean rest Conclusion : The "pecking rooms. We are not afraid to use this chickens" are at it again. Maybe the park anymore, thanks to all who Logan Canyon study may be the were and are responsible. next fable that needs help. The Conclusion: Logan Canyon is the experts, local elected and next fable about a little canyon thelt government officials, who have the needs help from experts, elected good of the people and the Logan officials and government employees Canyon in mi nd, I commend yo u for who have worked and planned so your dilige nce and concern for the hard for the good of the people and majority of the people and the good best for the land. for the canyon. Adult Fable No.2: Sadie Hanson Once upon a time there was a Smithfield place called "Mack's Park" in a little town called Smithfield. Weeds, underbrush, junk, rampant trees, destroyed toilet facilities and picnic tables, marred and broken, were seen all around. An yone who had a no tion slepTon the tables. Summit Cree k was no t visible because of the sirua tion . Town people we re afraid to go there. The c ity called in experts and an extensive st udy was done. The plan was anno un ced. Then came the "pec king ch ic ke ns ." "Sto p. you will ruin the natural look and habita t and kill the creek. The pa rk needs to be wild. I want my way, fools ." T he city plan was implemented over the cry uf the "peck in g chickens ... � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/42">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/42</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2013 Conversion Specs Scanned by Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library using Epson Expression 10000 scanner, at 800 dpi. Archival file is PDF (800 dpi), display file is JPEG2000. Checksum 3601102087 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 682293 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Letter to the editor entitled Adult fables Description An account of the resource Letter to the editor entitled Adult fables by Sadie Hanson from Smithfield. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hanson, Sadie Subject The topic of the resource Logan (Utah) Logan Canyon (Utah)--History Letters to the editor Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Newspaper Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1905-06-09 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Utah United States Logan (Utah) Cache County (Utah) Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1980-1989 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Sierra Club, Utah Chapter Archives, 1972-1986, COLL MSS 148 Series VIII Box 27 Folder 1 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. View the inventory for this collection at: <a href="http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv03390">http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv03390</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Libraries Photograph Curator, phone (435) 797-0890. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MSS148VIIIB27_Fd1_Page_10.pdf Highway 89; https://highway89.org/files/original/16180115e3ea0972917a8fa66a0fd35f.pdf cfb6abcde4b8b1cf329403a3536eec31 PDF Text Text APR 9 199u SUITE 100, 420 WEST 1500 SOUTH , BOUNTIFUL, UTAH 84010 PHONE OGDEN 773-5559 • PHONE SALT LAKE 292-4469 • FAX 292-5095 KELLY H. GUBLER, M.D., Chairman WILBUR R. JEFFERIES, Executive Director Kelly H. Gubler, M.D. Chairman Commissioner Tooele County Bart Barker Vice-Chairman Commissioner Salt Lake County April 3, 1990 James W. Davis Mayor, South Salt Lake Robert H. DeBoer Councilman, Ogden Palmer DePaulis Mayor, Salt Lake City A. Stephen Dirks Commissioner Weber County A. Bruce Dursteler Mr. Peter Jenks Congressman James Hansen's Office 1017 Federal Building 324 25th Street Ogden, Utah 84401 Dear Mr. Jenks: Mayor, North Ogden Charles Hoffman Mayor, Draper James Layton Mayor, Layton Enclosed is a package of information concerning the US-89 corridor from Farmington to Ogden as was discussed at the March 22, 1990, meeting at the Utah Department of Transportation. We would like you to make this information available to the appropriate person on Congressman Hansen's staff. Thank you for your help in this matter. William H. Levitt Mayor. Alta If you have any questions, please contact me. Robert Linnell Mayor, Bountiful Jeff D. London Commissioner Morgan County Blaine Nelson Mayor, Fruit Heights Sincerely, !lla~ Transportation Engineer Larry Smith Mayor, Sandy Scott Sneddon Mayor, Ogden D. Michael Stewart Commissioner Salt Lake County DH/pmb Enc. �SUITE 100 ,420 WEST 1500 SOUTH, BOU NTIFUL, UTAH 84010 PHONE OGDEN 773 -5559 • PHONE SALT LAKE 292-4469 • FAX 292 -5095 KELLY H. GUBLER, M.D., Chairman WILBUR R, JEFFERIES, Executive Director Kelly H. Gub ler, M.D. Chairman Commissioner Tooele County Bart Barker Vice-Chairman Commissioner Salt Lake County April 5, 1990 James W. Davis Mayor. South Salt Lake Mayor, Salt Lake City The Honorable James V. Hansen United States Congressman 2421 Rayburn Office Bldg. Washington, D.C. 20515 A. Stephe n Dirks Dear Congressman Hansen: Robert H. DeBoer Council man, Ogden Palmer DePau lis Commissioner Weber County A. Bruce Du rsteler Mayor, North Ogden Charles Hoffman Mayor, Draper The Wasatch Front Regional Council as the Metropolitan Planning Organization (MPO) for the Salt Lake and Ogden Areas has a significant interest in the US-89 corridor in Davis and Weber Counties. As Chairman of the Regional Council's Transportation Coordinating Committee (Trans Com), I am interested in pursuing improvements in the corridor as soon as possible. James Layton Mayor, Layton William H. Levitt Mayor, Alta Robert Linnell Mayor, Bountiful Jeff D. London Commi SSioner Morgan County The Utah Department of Transportation and cities and counties along US-89 from 1-15 in Farmington to Harrison Boulevard in Ogden have been studying the corridor for several years. Their studies have identified improvements needed to promote safety and better traffic flow in the corridor. Last year, a consultant study of the corridor recommended that a limited-access expressway with interchanges at several locations is the best alternative for meeting the needs on US-89. The recommendations of the study have been endorsed by all cities and counties along the corridor and by the State Transportation Commission. Blaine Ne lson Mayor, Fruit Heights Larry Sm ith Mayor, Sandy Scott Sneddon UDOT has begun environmental and design work for an interchange at SR-193 (Hill Field Road) and US-89. Construction is planned for 1992. However, funding for the remaining sections of the corridor has not been identified. A combination of state and federal funds will be required to complete the project. Mayor, Ogden D. Mic hael Stewa rt Commissioner Salt Lake County We would appreciate your support in pursuing funding options for the corridor. I am enclosing some information which will be helpful to you. Included are copies of: 1) A petition Signed by Davis County majors and legislators requesting Congressional support for US-89 2) A letter of support from Weber County officials �April 5, 1990 Page two If you need more information or have any questions, please call Doug Hattery at the Regional Council offices or call me at (801) 626-6013. We would be also glad to meet with you or any of your staff to further discuss this issue. Thank you for your support. RHD/DH/pmb Enclosures �PET I T ION Representative James Hansen Rayburn Building Room 2421 Washington, D.C. 20515 TO: WREREAS" -the . ~.ighway 8-9 . -co ·~r ·:'dor be·tween - E'a' fm~rtgton ' jun'c tfon--'a nd -Jso'~th " ~orth/south :We!;Jer- i5 used' extensi"'"ely by Lake city. and . . commute'rs from ogden to Salt . whEREAS;. A re~ently completed stu~y accepted by the affected enti ties that Highway 89. ,should , be developed as an e~pr_esswa¥ and :.t1$ve1.opment alen~ the eotridor ~eriausly jeopardizes the implementation of that cdhcept, and " !hdic~~es . ,· ~hEREAS; usage of Bignway 89 in this area ,has increased vastly over the by ~e year 2000, and last severa1 years and is expected to double kBEREAS; the fatal accident rate is far above the typical rate, and WHEREAS, ' Highwat 89 serves as a vital link to Rill Air Force Base, 'NOW t , THEREFORE the Mayors and Legislators' who represe'nt the ci tizens who reside in communities adjacent to. Highway 89 in Davis county respecefully request that our senators and congressmen make application for federal funding to make the much needed improvements on Highway 89 ~b · b~ dispensed to the Utah Department of Transportation in the usual way. . . .. .. ~a1;~d _, thi.s_ 2.Sth day_of,. .£ebruaqr,,-,1.990._ . ~ ....., ' -:. ~ .• ::.. : -"-"''' '' - ~ "--.' ~.:~.:.~ .. .: .. : ~ .. · ',i .. · ·.... ~~ . • . : ..; . •.. . " . ~:· : " .. . . " • . ' . . R.ex Bouchar South Weber City MaYQr Robert • Arbuckle Farmington City Mayor ~, Represent~ti~r Bain FrUit Heights City Mayor ~ri!- :.... ~~t.~_ ii~· - .' Kaysville ·Ci ty Mayor ~~meele .---". - ~~~-!?~ - ·Repr,esenta.ilv.,e~ _F.,~ ,~_kl .in Knowlton . _ ,: _ ~ . _. �:\tIE\lBERS Farr We\{ Ilarri ~ \ · dlt: 1I11fltwilk :-.Jort h O gtkn O!!t.icn Plain C i t\' Pka~ant View Ri\crdak Deve/opn7en / Services Di vision ~Veher A rea Council of Governlncnfs AprilS, 1990 Roy South Og(Jen Uintah Washington Terrace Weber Count y Weber Co. School Di stri ct Weber State C o llege Ogden City School Di str ict Robert DeBoer, Chai rman Transcomm Wasatch Front Regional Council 420 W. 1500 S., Suite 200 Bountiful or 84010 Dear Mr. DeBoer: The U~89 Corridor from Farmington to Ogden is very important to the elected officials and citizens of Weber County. It is one of only two corridors linking the Ogden Area with Salt Lake City. It services such major traffic generators as Hill Air Force Base and Weber State College. Maintaining the ability of U~89 to serve these needs is critical to the continued growth of Davis and Weber Counties. OJer the J;ast few years, several studies of the corridor have been conducted. Last year, a consultant hired by the Utah Department of Transportation and the cities and counties in the corridor recommended that U~89 be upgraded to a limited-access expressway with interchanges at several locations. Such an expr.essway would increase the safety in the corridor while maintaining traffic flow at a high level of service. The Wet:er Area Council of Governments has tmanimously supported the recanmendations for developing U~89 as an expressway. We would like to ask for your support in pursuing the expressway alternative and in obtaining funding for making the improvements. Your help would be very much app~eciated. Thank you for your support. Sincerely, David Andersen, Chairman t..~>/' Weber Area Council of Goverrnnents DA:BD/ss 2510 Washington BIrd., 151 Floor Ben Lomond Pla::.a • Ogden. Urah 84401 • Phone (801) 399-8791 � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1697">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1697</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Date Digital Record the date the item was digitized. 2013 Conversion Specs Scanned by Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library using Epson Expression 10000 scanner. Checksum 2767000582 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 2874525 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Correspondences concerning funding for Highway 89, Farmington to South Ogden Description An account of the resource Correspondences petitioning Congressman Hansen for federal funding for Highway 89, Farmington to South Ogden, forming an expressway, and expressing the need for improvements. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Hattery, Doug DeBoer, Robert H. Anderson, David Subject The topic of the resource Roads Improvement--Utah United States Highway 89 Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Correspondence Administrative records Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 1990-04-03 1990-04-05 1990-02-28 Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Farmington (Utah) Davis County (Utah) Utah United States Ogden (Utah) Weber County (Utah) Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1990-1999 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Papers of Congressman James V. Hansen, 1970-2003, COLL MSS 351 Series I Box 85 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. View the inventory for this collection at: <a href="http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv82138">http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv82138</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Text Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource application/pdf Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context MSS351SerIBx85_Item_7.pdf Highway 89; https://highway89.org/files/original/1172eca9f986a83e533e6780b5075764.pdf 7a0e2a00110e0a919f12c29abbd111c6 PDF Text Text 13065. OLD FAITHFUL. INN-YELLOWSTONE PARK. HAYNES-PriOTO. �Pt-641 20 POST CARD [Stamp Here] Domestic, \c MESSAGE. ADDRE SS foreign, 2c � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1786">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1786</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Height Height of digital item in pixels 2250 Width Width of digital item in pixels 3461 Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 600 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum 2337135783 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 5693177 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Old Faithful Inn postcard, Yellowstone Park, ca. 1920 Description An account of the resource Hand-colored tinted photograph postcard of Old Faithful Inn, Yellowstone Park, ca. 1920. Number 13085. Haynes, St. Paul official photographer of Yellowstone National Park. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Haynes, Frank J. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Haynes, Jack Ellis Subject The topic of the resource Yellowstone National Park Hotels Tourism Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Photographic postcards Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Haynes, St. Paul Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Yellowstone National Park Wyoming United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1920-1929 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University. Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Postcard Collection, P0031, Box 1 WY 015 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Finding aid for this collection can be found at: <a href="http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420">http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Image StillImage Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context P0031_Bx1WY_015 https://highway89.org/files/original/fd58b8a865d3f836673ff6e21685191b.pdf 3e27b4a9750112c436c67f2e71d1d7a8 PDF Text Text NO.122. MORNING GLORY SPRING. Y ELLOWSTONE PAFPO( . �POST CARD [S tamp He re] Dorneslic , Ie MESSAGE. ADDRE SS. fore ign , 2c . ( ( -'> � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1789">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1789</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Height Height of digital item in pixels 2238 Width Width of digital item in pixels 3426 Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 600 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum 4205183069 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 7125714 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Morning Glory Spring postcard, Yellowstone Park, ca. 1920 Description An account of the resource Hand-colored tinted photograph postcard of Morning Glory Spring, Yellowstone Park, ca. 1920. Number 122. Haynes, St. Paul official photographer of Yellowstone National Park. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Haynes, Frank J. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Haynes, Jack Ellis Subject The topic of the resource Tourism Yellowstone National Park Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Photographic postcards Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Haynes, St. Paul Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Yellowstone National Park Wyoming United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1920-1929 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University. Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Postcard Collection, P0031, Box 1 WY 009 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Finding aid for this collection can be found at: <a href="http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420">http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Image StillImage Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context P0031_Bx1WY_009 https://highway89.org/files/original/b1c6d6dcc5c70e02b7dce3e3c4db4304.pdf ab1ad5491dd83fca1bfcdc3be96841c5 PDF Text Text NO. 212. GRAND CANYON HOTEL LOUNGE FROM OFFICE-YELLOWSTONE PARK. HAVNES-PHOTO �R-64135 POST CARD MESSA GE. ADDRE SS. � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1798">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1798</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Height Height of digital item in pixels 2203 Width Width of digital item in pixels 3461 Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 600 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum 758086981 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 7293060 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grand Canyon Hotel postcard, lounge from office, Yellowstone National Park, ca. 1920 Description An account of the resource Hand-colored tinted photograph postcard of Grand Canyon hotel, lounge from office, Yellowstone Park, ca. 1920. Number 212. Haynes, St. Paul official photographer of Yellowstone National Park. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Haynes, Frank J. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Haynes, Jack Ellis Subject The topic of the resource Yellowstone National Park Hotels Tourism Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Photographic postcards Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Haynes, St. Paul Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Yellowstone National Park Wyoming United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1920-1929 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University. Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Postcard Collection, P0031, Box 1 WY 010 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Finding aid for this collection can be found at: <a href="http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420">http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Image StillImage Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context P0031_Bx1WY_010 https://highway89.org/files/original/0e652634b9bedccfd86a91150c87426c.pdf d4f7a4fabbed4eef57447da28be4c41c PDF Text Text ~, ~ NO. 'SO. LAKE HOTEL COLONIAL~YELLOWSTONE PARK. HA YNES-PHOTO �R-64124 POST CARD [Stamp He re] Domestic, 1c MESSAGE. ADDRESS . fo reign, 2c � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1801">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1801</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Height Height of digital item in pixels 2215 Width Width of digital item in pixels 3426 Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 600 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum 889619075 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 5780244 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Lake Hotel Colonial postcard, Yellowstone Park, ca. 1920 Description An account of the resource Hand-colored tinted photograph postcard of Lake Hotel Colonial, Yellowstone Park, ca. 1920. Number 180. Haynes, St. Paul offical photographer Yellowstone National Park. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Haynes, Frank J. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Haynes, Jack Ellis Subject The topic of the resource Yellowstone National Park Hotels Tourism Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Photographic postcards Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Haynes, St. Paul Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Yellowstone National Park Wyoming United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1920-1929 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University. Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Postcard Collection, P0031, Box 1 WY 008 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Finding aid for this collection can be found at: <a href="http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420">http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Image StillImage Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context P0031_Bx1WY_008 https://highway89.org/files/original/35bc0fe88daed31dd5e1e0c860abc561.pdf 4fac842e8adf8e39e9241e9c1b2a2d86 PDF Text Text �R-&41!8 POST CARD [Sta mp Here] Domestic, Ie MESSAGE. ADDRESS . foreign, 2c � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1804">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1804</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Height Height of digital item in pixels 3415 Width Width of digital item in pixels 2261 Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 600 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum 2685697134 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 6227738 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Golden Gate Canyon postcard, Yellowstone Park, ca. 1920 Description An account of the resource Hand-colored tinted photograph postcard of Golden Gate Canyon, Yellowstone Park, ca. 1920. Number 10079. Haynes, St. Paul official photographer of Yellowstone National Park. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Haynes, Frank J. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Haynes, Jack Ellis Subject The topic of the resource Yellowstone National Park Tourism Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Photographic postcards Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Haynes, St. Paul Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Yellowstone National Park Wyoming United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1920-1929 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University. Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Postcard Collection, P0031, Box 1 WY 013 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Finding aid for this collection can be found at: <a href="http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420">http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Image StillImage Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context P0031_Bx1WY_013 https://highway89.org/files/original/8918b15a0a6ea8b6f0b8bed0e0811af7.pdf 12cc7a4ff51282ba29db0634ab7527c7 PDF Text Text �POST CARD [Stamp Here] Domestic, Ie MESSAGE . ADDRESS. foreign , 2c � Text A resource consisting primarily of words for reading. Examples include books, letters, dissertations, poems, newspapers, articles, archives of mailing lists. Note that facsimiles or images of texts are still of the genre Text. Local URL The URL of the local directory containing all assets of the website <a href="http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1807">http://digital.lib.usu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/highway89/id/1807</a> Purchasing Information Describe or link to information about purchasing copies of this item. To order photocopies, scans, or prints of this item for fair use purposes, please see Utah State University's Reproduction Order Form at: <a href="https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php">https://library.usu.edu/specol/using/copies.php</a> Digital Publisher List the name of the entity that digitized and published this item online. Digitized by: Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library Height Height of digital item in pixels 2226 Width Width of digital item in pixels 3450 Scanning resolution Resolution in DPI 600 Colorspace RGB or Grayscale, for example RGB Checksum 3050897246 File Size Size of the file in bytes. 6851702 Bytes Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Mammoth Hot Springs postcard, Yellowstone Park, ca. 1920 Description An account of the resource Hand-colored tinted photograph postcard of Mammoth Hot Springs, Yellowstone Park, ca. 1920. Number 10072. Haynes, St. Paul official photographer of Yellowstone National Park. Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Haynes, Frank J. Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Haynes, Jack Ellis Subject The topic of the resource Yellowstone National Park Tourism Medium The material or physical carrier of the resource. Photographic postcards Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Haynes, St. Paul Spatial Coverage Spatial characteristics of the resource. Yellowstone National Park Wyoming United States Temporal Coverage Temporal characteristics of the resource. 1920-1929 20th century Language A language of the resource eng Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Postcard Collection, P0031, Box 1 WY 012 Is Referenced By A related resource that references, cites, or otherwise points to the described resource. Finding aid for this collection can be found at: <a href="http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420">http://nwda.orbiscascade.org/ark:/80444/xv12420</a> Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Special Collections and Archives, phone (435) 797-2663. Is Part Of A related resource in which the described resource is physically or logically included. Highway 89 Digital Collections Type The nature or genre of the resource Image StillImage Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource image/jpeg Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context P0031_Bx1WY_012