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INTERDISCIPLINARY TEAM MEETING
January 26, 1987
Additional Data for Agenda Items
Agenda Item No:
2.
Distribution of Revised Environmental Report Schedule
Distribution of Outline for Scoping Meeting
Distribution of Final Draft of Notice of Intent Sent to
FHWA.
3.
Distribution of Draft of Legal Notice of Seoping Meeting
4.
Distribution of Selected Crossections Showing Effect of
35 to 40 mph Design Speed . in the Lower Canyon.
Distribution of Figure Showing Retaining Wall Conceptual
Plan.
Distribution of Revised Matrix of Component and Alternative
Development Dated January 26, 1987.
SLC-STAN/14
1
�z
u.s.
89 LOGAN CANYON
ENVIRONMENTAL REPORT SCHEDULE
(Revised January 26, 1987)
Task
Due Date
Notice of Intent for EIS to FHWA
January 8, 1987
Scoping Meeting Legal Notices
to Media
January 28, 1987
Preliminary Alternatives Technical Memo
February 2, 1987
Official Notices to Government Agencies
Inviting Participation in Scoping
Meetings
February 2; 1987
News Release to Media
February 9, 1987
Fact Sheet to Media and Complete
Mailing List
February la, 1987
Scoping Meeting
- Logan
March. 3, 1987
Scoping Meeting
- Logan and Garden City
March 4, 1987
Technical Memo Drafts
(to UDOT & ID Team)
March 23, 1987
Complete Review of Tech Memos
April 20, 1987
Preliminary Draft EIS (To UDOT & ID Team)
April 27, 1987
Complete Review of Preliminary Draft EIS
May 26, 1987
Draft EIS Submittal to UDOT for
distribution to FHWA & USFS
SLC-STN/16a
June 8, 1987
1
�OUTLINE FOR SCOPING MEETING
U.S. 89 - LOGAN CANYON EIS
I.
Introduction
A.
Welcome to UDOT-FHWA-USFS Scoping Meeting on
U.S. 89 Logan Canyon EIS
B.
Introduction of speaker (others?)
C.
Purpose of meeting - formal scoping meeting in
accordance with NEPA - NEPA requires scoping
meeting to be held after publishing notice o f
intent, before preparing EIS
1.
2.
Obtain input on issues that should be considered in the EIS and suggestions for
project alternatives
3. '
D. -
Share results of study to present, project
alternatives developed
Answer questions on the alternatives and the
EIS process
UDOT contracted with CH2M HILL to carry out three
major study efforts
1.
2.
Development of transportation plan
(alternatives)
3.
E.
Analysis of traffic constraints and needs
Preparation of environmental document (EIS)
Previous public information meetings have been
held from which input will be used for scoping
EIS, along with this input; this meeting will
1.
2.
Explain project alternatives developed to the
present
3.
II.
Quickly recap results of study to present
Receive comments and suggestions, perhaps
more specific to alternatives
Project Setting and Objectives
A.
Relation of U.S. 89 to Region
1
�1.
Most of project area lies within Cache
National Forest, therefore, USFS and FHWA are
cooperating agencies on EIS
2.
Logan Canyon is scenic and recreational
resource
3.
U.S. 89 serves traffic
a.
Utilizing canyon for recreation
b.
From regional communities accessing the
regional trade center of Logan or recreational opportunities around Bear Lake
c.
Through traffic "from the accessing
recreational areas of Yellowstone and
Teton National Parks
4.
U.s. 89 classified as a "rural minor
arterial"
5. ·
Classifications carry standards to be ·met;
U.S. 89 does not presently conform to standards of a rural minor arterial
6.
Primary objective of study is to achieve compromise between "rural minor arterial" standards and scenic and recreational resources
of canyon
a.
Resources of canyon and population
increase will increase the traffic
volume on U.S. 89 in future
b.
Cross-section elements of road are significantly substandard throughout most
of project area; gradient and curves add
to problems
c.
Frequency of accidents is significantly
greater in 16 areas than the average for
the Canyon
d.
Explain level of service - quality measure of operating conditions
e.
At present volumes, road falls into
Level of Service D
f.
By 2000, the level of service will drop
to E in some places, by 2005 will
generally be E throughout project area
2
�7.
Results of traffic needs study presented at
previous meetings; fact sheet is available
III. Alternatives Development
A.
Study area can be . divided into three sections
based on terrain and road design characteristics
1.
Right Fork to 1.8 miles above Ricks Spring
2.
1.8 miles above Ricks Spring to Bear Lake
Summit
3.
Bear Lake Summit to Garden City
B.
Different alternatives are appropriate to each
section
C.
Alternatives not yet final; may be increased/
decreased as a result of input from scoping meetings
D.
Alternatives generally cover wide range of options
to provide good comparison of pros and cons of
each
E.
Section 1 - ·Right Fork to 1.8 miles above Ricks
Springs
1.
2.
Spot improvements - replace bridges; slow
vehicle turnouts; recreational turnouts and
parking; signing and marking improvements
3.
Widen along existing alignment - widen lanes,
shoulders, and ditches, raise grade in potential flood areas, plus other spot improvements
4.
F.
No action - maintain existing road
Widen and improve existing alignment to
design speed of 35 mph to 40 mph - improve
(straighten) alignment; passing lanes;
particularly in areas of sustained grades;
improvements listed in 2 and 3
Section 2 - 1.8 miles above Ricks Spring to Bear
Lake Summit
1.
No action - maintain existing road
3
�2.
G.
Widen and improve existing alignment to design
speed of 55 to 60 mph, widen lanes, shoulders,
and ditches, improve (straighten) alignment,
provide passing lanes, particularly in areas
of steep grades; raise grade in potential
flood areas; bridge replacement; signing and
marking improvements
Section 3 - Bear Lake Summit to Garden City
1.
2.
IV.
Widen and improve along existing alignment to
design speed of 35 to 40 mph - widen lanes,
shoulders, and ditches; improve (straighten)
alignment; provide passing lanes, particularly
in areas of steep grades, raise grade in
potential flood areas; bridge replacement;
signing and marking improvements
3.
H.
No action - maintain existing road
Construct road along new alignment to north
Use of alternate canyon for new road for through
traffic has been suggested as alternative by many
in the past. Has been determined economically
infeasible. Therefore, must do best we can to
balance local recreation/through traffic needs on
existing U.S. 89
Procedures to Submit Comments
1.
Sign up
2.
Step to microphone
3.
Give name, representing what group
4.
Want to give everyone chance · to speak before
allowing anyone second opportunity
5.
Not looking for whether you favor project or
not, but what issues should be examined in
ErS, or other alternatives or mitigation that
should be considered
6.
vlri tten comments will be accepted through
Monday, April 6. Address is on hand-out at
back of room.
- - - - -----
SLC94/d.ll0l
4
�LIST OF FIGURES FOR SLIDE PRESENTATION FOR SCOPING MEETING
Slide No
1.
US-89 - Logan Canyon
Environmental Impact Statement
Scoping Meeting
Utah Department of Transportation
In cooperation with United States Forest
Service and Federal Highway Administration
Consultant: CH2M HILL
2•
Purpose of Scoping Meeting
o
o
o
o
o
o
Comply with National Environmental
Protection Act (NEPA)
Review study approach
Review public involvement program
Review results of study
Review alternatives developed to date
Obtain input on additional alternatives
3.
Vicinity Map ( Figure 1 - T.M.)
4•
Site Map (Figure 2 - T.M.)
5.
Function of US-89 through Logan Canyon
o
o
o
o
o
6.
Roadway Characteristics
o
o
o
o
7.
1
2
3
SLC-STN/18
Substandard cross-section
Low design/travel speed
Low level of service - delays
Traffic volumes will increase
Study Area - Three Sections
Section
8•
Recreational access within canyon
Regional recreational traffic
Regional business and service
Serves interstate through traffic
Classification "Rural Minor Arterial"
Description
Right Fork to 1.8 miles above Ricks Spring
1.8 miles above Ricks Spring to Bear Lake Summit
Bear Lake Summit to Garden City
Site Map (Showing three sections)
1
�Alternatives
9.
No Action
Maintain Existing Road
Alternatives
10.
Spot Improvements
Replace bridges
Slow vehicle turnouts
Recreational turnouts and parking
Signing and pavement marking improvements
Alternatives
11.
Widen Along Existing Alignment
Widen lanes and shoulders
Widen ditches - improve drainage
Replace bridges
Climbing lanes
Recreational turnouts and ' parking
Signing and pavement marking improvements
Alternatives
l2~
Widen and Improve existing alignment
Improve alignment - 35-40 mph
Improve alignment - 55-60 mph
Widen lanes and shoulders
Widen ditches - improve drainage
Replace bridges
Climbing lanes
Recreational turnouts and parking
Signing and pavement marking improvements
. Alternatives Summary
13.
Section 1
(Middle Canyon)
No Action
Spot Improvements
Widen Exist. Road
Widen and Improve:
35-40 mph
55-60 mph
New Alignment
SLC-STN/18
X
X
X
Section 2
(Upper Canyon)
X
Section 3
(Rich County)
X
X
X
X
X
X
2
�s-e~1 6:; L./dClT
F#~~ OA/ ~ec /3~
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(49] ()-22)
//,Ia//
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION -Federal Highway Administration
ENVIRor~ENTAL
IMPACT STATEMENT; CACHE AND RICH COUNTIES, U1AH
AGENCY:
Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) , DOT.
ACTION:
Notice of intent.
SUMMARY:
The FHWA is issuing this notice to advise the public that
at this time it is the
St3ternent
(LIS)
for
to prepare an Environmental Impact
intenf~
~
proposed
a
highway
project
in
_
r".:lrhD / ':I ~r~
....... - , , ...... , . -- - ,
.
... .,..<!~
Counties,
Utah.
the
If
study
and
analysis
conclude
that
all
appropriate FHWA/UDOT criteria for a Finding of No Significant Impact
are met then the document may be converted from an EIS to a FONSI.
FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT:
Duncan Silver, u.S. Department. of
. ,
Transportation, Federal Highway Administration, P.O. Box 1J563, Salt
Lake
City, . Utah
Baumgartner,
U.S.
Telephone
84147,
Department of Agriculture,
North 1200 East, Logan, Utah
James Naegle,
West,
(801)
84321,
524-5143,
Utah
84119,
uave
Forest Service,
860
Telephone (801) 753-2772, or
Utah Department of Transportation,
Salt Lake City,
or
Telephone
4501
(801)
So~th
L700
965-416C.
or
Howard Richardson, Utah Department of Transportation, District One
Office, P.q. Box 2747, Ogden, Utah
SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION:
84404, Telephone (801) 399-5921.
The proposed action would improve U.S.
Highway 89 through Logan Canyon, Utah, from Right Fork, about 9 miles
east of Logan, to Garden City, a distance of approximately 28 mjles.
This road passes through the Wasatch-:-Cache National Forest,
provides scenic and recreational resources.
which
Portions of the highway
are a narrow two-lane road with numerous
gradient.
The highway
is
umber of
�-'
-'
r ecreation(Jl and other large vehicles, which, along with the road
constrain~:ten r~n
delays of traffic .. Improvements to be
considered include widening of the roadway and shoulders; flattening
of
curves,
gradient,
replacing
and
widening
of
improvement
bridges,
signing,
adjustment
of
provision
of
road
additional
recreational turn-outs, and/or constructing a new road along a new
alignment in selected areas, . ~tc.
~
~
The project"" can be divided intG three sectioi,S
1
characteristics.
These sections are:
above Ricks Spring;
(2)
Bear
Summit;
(1)
ba~eu
Widen
~nd
alignment.
I
1.8 miles above Ricks Spring to Bear Lake
Lake
spot improvements;
~01J .
H.-5 ueslgr
Right Fork to 1.8 miles
Summit
to
Garden
(3)
Alternatives
City.
currently being consi.dered for the project include:
(2)
on
(1)
no action;
widen along existing alignment;
. .improve existing alignment;
(5)
(4)
Construct road along new
Different alternatives might be selected for each of the
road sections.
Several . public meetings discussing the project have already been
held.
Formal scoping meetings for the public will be held on March
3, at 7:00 p.m. at the Mountain Fuel Supply Auditorium ! 45 East 200
North in Logan, and on March 4, at 7:00 p.m.- in Garden City Hall.
A
meeting for governmental agencies and public officials will be held
March 4,
at
10:00 a.m.
in
the
Logan City
Hall.
other scoping
meetings will be held as determined necessary, . . and information on
S II:: 1 . .
time and place will be provided through the local news media.
_
. .to-........---. j..c ......~~-.J"a ~. A,...".:"
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•
_
To ensure that the full range of issues related to this" proposed
action are addressed and all significant issues identified, comments
and suggestions are invited from all interested parties.
questions concerning
the
proposed action and
Comments or
the EIS should be
�directed to the FHWA at the address provided above.
r
/
J.
/' . ~
i
,
{
"_ J
!
~
J!
;
(Catalog
of
Federal
Domestic
Assistance
High\'!ClY Research Planning and Construction.
Cir(~ ular
Program
Number
20.205,
The provisions of OM8
No. A-95 regarding state and local clearinghouse review of
Federal ana federally assistea programs and projects apply to this
program.)
Issued on:
· "!"~aniel
Dake
Division Administrator
Salt Lake City, Utah
1.
�NOTICE OF PUBLIC SCOPING MEETINGS
US-89 Logan Canyon
The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA), U. S. Forest Service (USFS), and Utah Department of Transportation (UDOT)
will jointly hold public scoping meetings for the Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) being prepared for U.S. Highway 89 through Logan Canyon in Cache and Rich Counties, Utah,
on March 3, at 7:00 p.m. at the Mountain Fuel Supply Auditorium, 45 East 200 North in Logan, and on March 4, at 7:00
p.m. in Garden City Hall. A meeting for governmental agencies
and public officials will be held March 4, at 10:00 a.m. in
the Logan City Hall.
The general public, interest groups,
and governmental agency personnel are invited to attend to
provide input regarding their concerns about impacts of road
improvements on the environment of the Canyon and issues
which should be addressed. Comments and suggestions are
invited from all interested parties.
UDOT has contracted with CH2M HILL, an environmental engineering consulting firm in Salt Lake City, to analyze · transportation needs in Logan Canyon, develop alternative plans
for improvements, and evaluate the impact · of those plans on
the environment in an EIS.
The FHWA and the USFS will be
cooperating agencies on the EIS, which will · be developed in
conformance with the National Environmental Policy Act
(NEPA) .
NEPA requires that a scoping process take place prior to the
conduct of an EIS.
It is the purpose of the scoping meetings
to de·t ermine from the interested communi ty what are perceived
to be the sensitive resources of the pr6ject area and what
environmental factors should be studied most closely in the
EIS.
Several public meetings discussing the project have
been held . previously.
Other scoping meetings will be held
a~ determined necessary, and information on time and place
will be provided through the local news media. Public meetings will also be held when the draft EIS is completed to
obtain comments on its contents.
The proposed action would improve US-89 through Logan Canyon
from Right Fork about 9 miles east of Logan, to Garden City,
a distance of approximately 28 miles.
This road passes
through the Wasatch-Cache National Forest, which provides
scenic and recreational resources. Portions· of the highway
are a narrow two-lane road with numerous curves and considerable gradient. The highway is traveled by .a significant
number of recreational and other large vehicles, which,
along the the road constraints, often results in delays of
traffic.
Improvements to be considered include widening of
the roadway and shoulders, flattening of curves, replacing
and widening of bridges, adjustment of road gradient, improvement of signing, provision of additional recreational turn-
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�GUARD RAIL
CONCRETE
RETAINING WALL
EXISTING PLANT GROWTH
TO BE RETAINED AND
PROTECTED
C
PLANTINGS REQUIRED ---....-
TOPSOIL REQUIRED
l' - 6"
"'"""----,
A
/
EXCAVATION LINE
(APPROXJ
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RIVER
FIGURE
RETAINING WALL AND
LANDSCAPING CONCEPTUAL PLAN
LOGAN CANYON STUDY
,.::tlum.,
�(1) 5:1 SLOPE
29' MIN 55 MPH
23' TO 2S'
S'+
24' MIN 50 MPH
18' MIN 40 MPH
16' MIN 35 MPH
(2) SLOPE VARIES 1 0: 1 TO 5: 1
(A)
EXISTING
24-29' 55 MPH
20 -24' 50 MPH
15 -18'
40 MPH
13 -16'
35 MPH
40'
( 2')
12'
12'
~~--~~--------~~--------~~----~
~~
RECOVERY
AREA
____________________________________________________
'0~:,
~
~-y
-<-~
<' -y~
(B) STANDARD
~ ~~
0..-0
(HOURLY VOLUME OVER 250>
-
-
.....
-
- RECOVERY AREA _6' MIN_
CUT
DITCH
--_S'_
34'
12'
-~
~
~
RECOVERY AREA -
.....
12'
- -- _S'_
~
5' "\
~
10:1
(C) MODIFIED STANDARD
FIGURE 1
TYPICAL SECTIONS
LOGAN CANYON STUDY
�11' MIN
17'
17'
2' MIN
RETAINING STRUCTURE/GUARD
RAIL POSSIBLY REQUIRED.
MODIFIED STANDARD
(CENTERED ON EXISTING ALIGNMENT)
17'
5'
MIN
OFFSET
17'
10' MIN-(40 MPH, 10:1)
8' MIN-( 35 MPH, 10: 1)
EXISTING
RETAIN RIVERBANK
MODIFIED STANDARD
(NEW CENTERLINE OFFSET AWAY
FROM RIVER)
,;r
FIGURE 2
TYPICAL SECTIONS WIDENING
ON EXISTING ALIGNMENT
:::f,~cn'.
LOGAN CANYON STUDY
�
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Additional data for agenda items from January 26, 1987 Interdisciplinary Team meeting
Description
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Additional data for agenda items from January 26, 1987 Interdisciplinary Team meeting includes an environmental report schedule, outline for scoping meeting, list of figures for slide presentation for scoping meeting, environmental impact statement for Cache and Rich counties, notice of public scoping meetings, mulitple diagrams (for speed limits), figure of retaining wall and landscaping conceptual plan, figure of typical sections, and widening on existing alignment.
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CH2M Hill (Firm : Salt Lake City, Utah)
Utah. Department of Transportation
Dake, Daniel
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Logan Canyon (Utah)
Traffic engineering
Roadside improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon
Roads--Design and construction
United States Highway 89
Logan Canyon Study
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1987-01-26
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Utah
United States
Logan Canyon (Utah)
Cache County (Utah)
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1980-1989
20th century
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eng
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Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives, Sierra Club, Utah Chapter Archives, 1972-1986, COLL MSS 148 Series VIII Folder 9
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View the inventory for this collection at: <a href="http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv03390">http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv03390</a>
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Highway 89 Digital Collections
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Text
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MSS148VIIIB27_Fd9_Page_11.pdf
Highway 89;
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http://highway89.org/files/original/9df15fee1b62048a0db38c6f5a5ee6b4.pdf
1a18d841f44852d756943df04bf3fd33
PDF Text
Text
LOGAN CANYON PUBLIC MEETING
November 3, 1986
COMMENTS FOLLOWING CH2M HILL PRESENTATION:
(
With that information we are here to listen, so we would invite you
to make your comments. We are recording the meeting so we would
like you to identify who you are for our record. This is not a formal hearing, we are here to get ·your input. We want to know
what your concerns are, what you see as the issues and we invite
you to star~. You can address your comments to the consulting
team, the Highway Dept, so let's be brave and lead off.
Bryce Nielson: . 1 was wondering what the original decision or
reason was to have three alternative routes come from the summit
down. What is the specific problems associated with the existing
route?
Stan: Well, as you know, there are several hairpin curves on that
alignment. We will be looking at that alignment, we are not discarding it, but we are saying, Is there another way? There is some
unstable ground in that alignment that the Highway Dept. has had to
deal with over the years. And it is now being built up along this
portion of the road. We were just asked by the Highway Dept. to
look at the ~ossibilities, to review the whole route. If therp is
not a better way, we'll find out, if there is, maybe it is worth
looking at· in more detail.
Price: I have a question for Commissioner Weston. What
kind of priority is. the Highway Department assigning to this
project?
Todd Weston: Well, very low. I've got to answer that honestly.
The problem we are in with money right now, we can't separate funds
from the north part, south part, or Wasatch Front and with the
problems we've got on the Wasatch Front right now, funding for this
project is considerably down the road a ways. That is as honest an
answer as I can give you. It is not a high priority. If we had
all this decid.ed today, ~t wouldn't be the most high priority, JoJut
it is something we have to go through, irregardless. It is still a
long ways down the road.
.,.. . /
I'm Brian Stringham 'and I've been travelling that road for a long
time, and that is a deplorable situation to have seven 18 foot
bridges on ~ US highway. That ~s uncalled for. This is 1986.
That road was started back in ~he late 20's and finished up in
1932, and there has been little improvement on that road except for
th~ lowe~ end that was improved 20 years ago.
But, I travel that
road as much ~S anyLody in this room for a lot of years ana the~ is
one of the biggest beefs I've got when I talk to anybody, that
lousy road that we have to travel on. So if we can do something
with those bridges, and I'm glad this summer that they finally put
in a few guard rails, but half of the places they put guard rails
in they didn't need them. Up the street here there is about 600
feet of guard rail that drops over 10 feet. A mile· above that
where you come around the curve where you need it and it drops 100
feet or 150 feet, there is no guard rail. Now why is that? I think
what has happened is that the contractor come up here and missed
the place where he was suppose to put it. Those are some of the
7
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gripes I've got. , We've got to change those bridges. I've drive a
big truck down there and I go down there and a woman was coming up
in a big car and she stopped in the middle of the bridge and I was
coming down at 40 miles an hour and she was just petrified, and
finally we worked it out so we got through, but I was afraid I was
going to push her off into the river. These 18 foot bridges have
got to be changed and we are not going to accept anything. less.
That's the main thing I'm unhappy with, those lousy bridges we've
got.
I'm Alan Harri~on, Director of Bear Lake Regional Commission. Ken
Brown, County Commission Chairman of Rich County asked me to read a
statement.
"Having watched traffic increase for the past ten years, I
feel the canyon road should definitely be improved. Minimum
improvement should include three lane passing such as in the
lower canyon. Tourist flow to and from Bear Lake is important
to our economy and Logan Canyon is a problem. Safety is a
real COllcern, and anyone who travels the road regularly w')uld
agree that it is becoming more and more cumbersome and time
consuming. I feel no more studies are necessary and we should
commence with construction.
Stan:
Would you please give us a copy of that?
Alan Harrison:
Yes sir.
Paul Webb: I understand that this study has ' been in progress since
June of this year. One question is how much longer is the study
going to continue and the other question is, if this is a low priority on the UDOT budget, what is the time frame for any kind 0::
improvements rather it be the status quo approach or the whole ball
of wax?
Stan: We will be completing our work in June of next year. We
were given a year to do the ,study, and we are about halfway through
with our efforts right now. As far &s the priority listing, there
is a number of funding programs that the state has ' access to,
things such as the br~dge repla~ement, maybe, could be a different
priority than improving the whole road. I'll. let the UDOT answer
that more fully.
~.,,-
UDOT: If we 10 any work at all in the canyon, it will have to ~e
documented quite well from an environmental approach, that is to
justify the expenditure of fedelal funds on this project, and that
it will not harm the environment. One purpose of this study is to
identify various ways in which projects may be staged in the
canyon. It is our opinion that the structures are an important
issue and should be addressed as soon as possible. ~ut even if we
had the money right now to replace the structures, we couldn't do
it until we complete the _environmental study that is underway now.
So the first step in this process is to evaluate the alternatives
and to also evaluate them on an environmental basis to justify the
8
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(
,
expenditure of funds, and then funds could be awarded. Portions of
this project will go sooner 'than other parts. But if we are going
to do any work at all we must complete this long process.
Question: Who has the final say, the UDOT or the environmentalists?
UDOT: Both. What we are doing through this environmental study is
coming to a mutual understanding as to what we can realistically do
in the canyon.
Question: Okay my other question is, environmentally, which is
more important, to lose a life, even if an ambulance has to go
through any kind of weather through this canyon, which is more
impor~~nt saving the environment or saving a life?
Lynn Zollinger: Those questions are hard to answer.
(There was an
uproar in the crowd). Let me say what we intend to do is to design
a facility that will be the best facility we can build within the
constraints we are given. And it is not going to be a super route
or 60 mph he~e ...
Comment: I'll bet if you ask any person in this room which is more
important they would say it is a person's life.
Question: I'm a citizen here in town. Didn't you have funds
approved for the entire Logan Canyon before the environmentalists
shot it down? Isn't that why the improvements were shut down
before?
Lynn Zollinger: There was a construction scheduled to begin at
Right Fork and continue to Ricks Spring. That was following
closely on the heels of the one completed on up to Right Hand Fork.
In the early seventies is when that was slated to go to construction and the funds werp. completed and I believe we were almost
ryady to advertise. Then the environmental issues surfaced and the
momentum at that time was stopped to this date.
Comment: I can't believe with all the rocks and trees we've got
around here there is anything so particular in that canyon.
Lynn Zollinger: There is, bel~eve me. . There are very many issues
that are sensitive from an environmental standpoint.
Question: !~:>w mar.Y lawsuits do we have to file to get this
standard road improved?
Lynn Zollinger:
. .-/
s"o-
I can't answer that.
Question: What has 'happened to all those funds that they have from
the 5% tax in the whole U.S., there was supposed to be 60 million
dollars in the State of Utah to take care of substandard roads,
such as bridges. This was going to make employment, upgrade the
roads in the secondary and third grade roads in the whole u.S. and
9
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each state was going to get their share.
any of the pie back, did we?
I don't think we even got
Commissioner Weston:· I thought I was in a friendly area here.
I
think in all fairness, · and I know your concerns, I travel that road
quite often myself, and I know that there are some things that
ought to be done, and I don't think there is anybody that doesn't
agree with that. How far to go is the problem. We know that we
have to replace some bridges. We've got some bridges up there that
are too narrow and besides that they are structurally unsound, so
that if we don't do something pretty quick, we may have to do something more drastic. As far as why we have to do these studies, I
think I have the same position you have. I was County Commissioner
in Cache County for seve~al years, and we went through several
exercises trying to make improvements up the canyon and we never
could satisfy enough people on what we needed to do and to get
enough unity in what to do in order to have the federal government
release funds.
NOw, that is a pure and honest statement. We have
some bridge replacement right now. These funds rollover and each
year and what funds aren't used rollover to another year.
Th~
priority for our funds in Logan Canyon may be better next year than
this year, we don't know. We know that highway funds are badly
depleted right now. We are at least 40 million dollars behind our
funding of state highways right now. We actually got far enough
along in the last year- to program points for Logan Canyon on three
bridges, two of them are close to being funded, and we decided that
we needed to go through the necessary requirements to get the
·federal dollars. Remember that 95% of the money that wo~ld be
spent on this canyon is coming out of Washington. I appreciate
that it is your money, but it still has to be released by the
Federal Highway Dept. and when we requested to move ahead with
just the tridges we were told there would be no money given to us
by Federal Highways ~ntil a complete and indepth environmental
study fo~ the whole canyon was complete. So, that's why these
peopile are hired. ·1 sat on the commission over there and we had
$500,000 allocated one year to go from Right Hand Fork to Ricks
Spring, which would have in those days, built the thing.
But we
couldn't move. We didn't have our homework done. Of course, I
wasn't in the highways then, but I was on the county commission and
I sat in the position you are in - frustration wondering why can't
we go. Well, it is even more complicated now than it was then.
We've got a terrible shortage of money for highways. We've got
SOhle ter.;:ible problems. This isn't the only bad strotch ooC highway
we hdve in Utah.
I've been over a lot of it in ~~e la!c year and · I
want to tell you this is not· the worse stretch of road.
It is
maybe, from your standpoint becc..use you have to travel it, but if
you go from across the state you'll find many roads in pretty bad
shape. We are doing the best we can with the money we have. As
soon as the environmental study is complete, then we will go back
to the federal government and say, "Here's our plans, here is what
we can justify from a reasonable standpoint, here is what the
people think we need, and here is what we can do with the dollars
we've got, and not impact the canyon to the point that we are
foolish, and yet build a road that we need and will supply our
10
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needs to the year 2010 and if we can hit that happy medium, then
we'll get approval. Of course, we've got to work with the Fo~est
Service. They own the land. You people need to understand that.
Comment:
They work for the people.
Todd Weston:
Yes, but they administrate it.
Dave Baumgarner:
land.
(
,
Forest Service doesn't own the land it is public
Todd Weston: You people own the land, but the forest ser,ice
administrates it. ' And we are going to build improvements to that
highway. When I say "improvements" I sometimes get a gun pointed
at my throat.
Some people consider that anything we do up there is
not improving. You need to know we have a lot of people that feel
that way.
I'm not saying that they are right, or that you are
right.
I know that somewhere in the middle we are going to find
some mutual ground that we can satisfy our needs with and that is
what we are ~rying to do. There are some places up in that ca~yon
that I don't want to see destroyed and I've got the same concerns
you have, but we are going to do the best job we can. We've got
make sure that it meets with their plans in their management
process for the canyon. Dave Baumgarner is charge with his office
to see that anything that is done in · that canyon is the proper
thing to do for what the people need and want .
.
Question:
I enjoy driving through the canyon as much as anybody
else does at anytime of the year. I really enjoy it.
I don't
think anybody in this room would like to see the beauty of that
canyon destroyed.
It would be ludicrous on our part to assume
that.
It is a great calling card for us to bring people over here.
However, when you drive through it and you realize how o~d the road
is an~_ the fact that a lot of improvements can be made, , ~. hen wilCn .
' you've got to go through all these agencies you are talking abol1t
and all the red tape and bureaucracy you are talking about, I don't
see why these entities, public and environmental, forest service, '
can not sit down and give a little bit so that this road can be
improved whereby the flow of traffic will be safer for all
concerned going both ways. NOW, the last two years there have been
a great flow of traffic throug~ the canyon. The truck traffic flow
has increased considerable from Millers over there. And · that is
fi~e, we"d like to see them come over here, but when you gpt in
c~rtain places in that road, those trucks take up 3/4s of the highway and that leaves you with very little. As far as arguing about
the road, we need the road and ~e deserve the road. And we need to
have all the.s e entities sIt down and say, "Alright, these are the
pr~blems, 'but let's get on with the program.
Let's find out what
has to be done, let's take and ~ive a little.
(
.. ,./
11
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Sheldon: I appreciate all your concerns, they are great. Wet~lked earlier about the length of our study.
I think it might be
appropriate to answer why it-takes a year to do the study. We are
trying to do the study correctly. If you read your newspaper you
can see what happened in Provo Canyon.
I'm not saying that will
happen here, but, by gosh, we are going to do everything we can to
keep that from happening. But there are some lawsuits in Provo
that have been filed against UDOT and we do want to make sure that
we take time to get everything documented well enough, · so that when
our recommendations are accepted, or UDOT makes the recommendation
and they and the Fore's t Service agree, we've got the proper framework to support any potential lawsuit that might come down. That
takes time and I apologize for that.
Question:
I have a question for Mr. Baumgarner. I think everybody
has preconceived notions about this entity out there called an
environmentalist, that they are instantly going to battle with the
residents over here. Since you are with the Forest Service and you
are going to represent the federal government's interest and proba- .
bly a lot of the biological and ecological interest in the can~on,
I'm interested in your comments as to do you really think the envi~
ronmentalists and the citizens are that far apart?
/
Dave Baumgarner: No, they are not. I don't have an answer any
different than that. There are some legitimate concerns on both
sides. But other than argue about statistical data that justifies,
or unjustifies the project, when it comes right down to it, the
issues aren't really that strong. Almost down to the point of talking about a specific corner as to whether or not for a fishery or
an environmental issue, there aren't very many serious issues about
bridges. If we had this to do allover again, to be quite frank,
and the state had the money to build bridges without having to qo
to the federal government for funds, we would categorically exclude
brid~~~.
What that means in our process is that with a half page
d~cision signed by my boss, the project would not have to go
through the entire environmental process on the specific bridge
replacement. In talking about individual corners, we are almost in
the same box, but not quite, depending on the issue on the specific
corner. From the Forest Service perspective, we are a lot closer
than people realize. However, there are some processes involved
that are giving us some troubl~, timewise.
St ~ ~:
S! ~eldon : why don't you identify where we go from herp with
t:le public involvement process.
Sheldon: This meeting was really only intended as a public information meeting. Certain:y to solicit your comment, but this is
just the first of several opportunities that will come up over this
whole period of this study for people to have input. This is an
information meeting; we are just getting started. As we get into
the environmental assessment we will have what we call a Scoping
Meeting where we identify issues. We'll go from there with public
hearings and you will have plenty of opportunity to speak up and
frankly, I think it is great, and please keep doing it.
12
�Bill Peterson: I am questioning your statistics on your growth
rate. We've been in a down trend in our economy in this area, but
in the last year there have been a number of major projects express
interest in building motels and hotels here and 'I think that your
2% growth rate is going to be way short of the actual growth rate
of the traffic on the highway. I think we will get that 2% just
from our locals. If there is any other increase, it will go way
over that.
Stan: We shar~ that concern. Cliff Forsgren did that study for us
and it was reviewed very carefully by UDOT and by the interdisciplinary team we work with on a fairly regular basis. Cliff, why
don't you cover the background on that.
Cliff: The approach to putting together projections requires a
great deal of knowledge, experience and skill, and computers and
everything else and when you are done? Frankly, we look at it from
a couple of different perspectives. We look at it from what has
occurred over the past 10 or 12 years as long as we have the cata
from a counter station. We also took the State of Utah's projection for economic growth in northern Utah and we came up with
numbers that were very close to the same. From the standpoint of
those of us that were preparing this projections, 2% is a bit
uncomfortable. But based on the information we had, it was difficult to come up with anything higher. Believe me, I tried. Looking at the average daily flow in the summer in one year you may
have a significant increase from one year to the next, but the next
year then it will drop off some, and it averages out. If someone
could give us some data or some information that would show that it
needs to be higher, but based on what we have got, that's all we
could justify.
Ted wilson:
Doesn't I-IS plan to finished off further past
Tremo~ton?
UDOT:
That is correct.
Ted Wilson:
into Logan?
Are they planning to improve the Valley View highway
UDOT: We haven't got any engineering done on Valley View.
o~ our hJpe list.
It is
Ted Wilson: At present, I'm sure everybody would agree that the
canyon is beautiful, but we wou ..d also becoming a deterrent to
traffic coming this way. An improved highway may bring as many as
10% higher flow rate almost immediately. People are getting scared
of Logan Canyon. It is getting bad. The shoulders are horrible.
They washed out really bad this last year. People don't like to
travel it once they have seen it. If they want to get some place,
they·are starting to go around. Other communities are advertising
to draw the traffic away from Logan to Soda Springs, to Randolph,
that type of thing. As for looking to the past, we have had a
13
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falling off of percentage and that 2% may look that way, but if you
have an improved highway, business wise and traffic flow wise, I
think you'll see a tremendous higher use, and especially if 1-15 is
finished and good access to Logan, to Tremonton. We still are the
major route to Jackson Hole and Yellowstone areas, but Logan Canyon
is a mess.
Question: I have a couple of questions for Mr. Weston. First, how
much do you project it will cost to fix the existing substandard
bridges and how much did it cost to hire CH2M Hill?
Westo~~
I'll turn those questions . over to the engineers; they've
got the exact figures.
Lynn Zollinger: The cost to build a structure cost about $45.00
per square foot. The new bridges I expect will be 40' wide, give
or take a few feet, and the length is about 150'. That is a
preliminary guess, so whatever 40 times 45 times 150 would be the
structure cost.
Question:
How many substandard bridges?
Todd Weston:
.I
/
Seven.
Lynn Zollinger: Some are longer than others, like at Tony Grove
where they are relatively short span, but others sucn as Lower Twin
Bridge and Burnt Bridge and Red Bank Bridge that are considerably
larger. So the way I look at it, there are four major structures
and at least three minor structures.
Question:
What about hiring a construction firm for a year?
Lynn Zollinger: The fe~ for hiring the consultants is around
$50(\.1)00. It is a very expeasive study. I . think it shows the
UDOT'::; commitment to solve the problems at Logan Canyon.
Kathy Webb: If you have two other options here you are thinking
about for alternate routes through the canyon, how realistic is it
that you are going to do something with the existing canyon? Are
you plauning on doing any funding anyway?
Stan:
~~a thy
Yes, that's all part of the study.
Webb:
And the other two options are
Stan: The other two options are only from the summit to G.lrden
City, so they don't rea_Iy impact the canyon at all.
Kathy Webb: The other question I have is I have to know what the
logic· is behind the passing lane at Ricks Springs. I just have to
know that. That is the craziest passing lane I have ever been on!
Is that what it is? (Lots of laughter)
Lynn, do you want to handle that?
14
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Lynn.: There was a passing lane built at Ricks Springs. That was
done as a desperation move. There is no other term for it, by the
UDOT to provide some improvement in the canyon. (more laughter).
In a lot of ways we had our hands tied as to spending money to make
improvements in Logan Canyon. One group says improve it, do this,
do that, and the other group says you can't do anything without the
appropriate studies. And I guess the best .way to look at ·the passing lane is that while it did offer some relief and some improvement for that section, is that we wanted to make an improvement and
go out and do something. ·
Question:
meetings.
You mentioned here tonight that there will be other
Where are they going to be?
Stan: We will have another Scoping Meeting when we get very
specific about what are the alternatives we are going to be looking
at. There will be one of those held in Logan and one held here in
this valley.
Question: Another question I have is how much weight does this
meeting we are having here hold? Is Logan going to be able to
override us . again?
Stan: ' I don't know if that is ' a fair assessment. There are a lot
of people in Logan that feel the same as you do. But they are
unfortunately, the silent majority. So we are going to make these
studies and identify some alternatives and there will be reports
produced that will show what the benefits and non-benefits of each
alternative are. The final result of this will be the recommended
alternative, but the agencies will select, those being the UDOT and
the Forest Service. They will select the recommended alternative
and a hearing will be held that will discuss that.
Paul Webb: I think it was commissioner Weston that mentioned that
our project was a low priority project. I assume he W·: l,S talking
about expenditure of money. I would like to know whose list we are
on. Is that the UDOT's priority list and how will this study
affect that priority?
Todd Weston: Paul, I guess I've got to say that everyboGy -is on a
low priority until we get more money. We just have some many
projects ahead of us that we ~re ju .~t putting out fires, is what we
are doing. We know that if we don't do some~hing ~;n 1-15 within the
next three years, we are going to have a big parking lot between
Brigham -:ity and Salt I·ake, and I'm talking about that lit ~rally.
And we are talking about a major part of the population living in
that part of the state. We have to put things in the perspective.
I think our preconstruction engineer put it as well as I can. We
are going to do what we can. See, there are different funds; there
are bridge funds that are ready to go. We had some that were ready
to go, but we were stopped by Federal Highways to do any bridgework
until we completed this exercise we are going through now. Had
Dave Baumgarner and I been able to sit down together as the Forest
15
�Service and UDOT we probably could have built those bridges and had
Federal Highway release the dollars, and they probably will now.
But in defense of the environmental study with CH2M Hill, why we
are hiring these people, is that we are hiring to gain some time.
We simply do not have staff to put them on this project and do· it
in the time frame we are trying to do and get on with the construction. They are hired to do the job we didn't have staff to do it
in the time frame we need.
Question: I remember going to a meeting several years ago with the
UDOT and talking about a problem we had in Laketown Canyon. That
priority was very low, and then suddenly it jumped up to where it
was partially completed. You mentioned that ·95% of the funds can't
be approved until this study is done. If this study is done to
their satisfaction and application is made and they approve 95%
funding, what chance do we have to have that priority jump?
Todd Weston: Of course, after that is done we have to go to preconstruction plans. You know, we could start on some bridges
rather rapidly. But you see, when you start on some bridges, well,
take the bridge at the bottom of the dugway, a tall bridge, an
expensive structure, needs to be widened. Now, when you widen it,
do you just widen the bridge, or do you go down .stream a ways and
take that big sharp curve off from it and make a decent curve at
the bottom of it? One thing leads to another to where -you start
impacting further down the road. So we've got to do it in an
orderly fashion, and frankly, I'm glad we are doing it this way
because once and for all, we will have a document in our hands that
says, "This is what we can reasonably do. to improve the canyon."
Now, well you say the environmentalists stopped the other projects.
Well, maybe yes, and maybe no, maybe we didn't have our homework
done. We just got two lawsuits slapped on us on Provo Canyon,
which is a similar project, with more traffic and more people, bu~
sim;1ar. We got slapped with two lawsuits, and neither one of them
are €:nvironmentalists, typical qualified environmentalist groups
' like the Sierra Club, and others. They were not recog~ized as
environmentalists g:roups. The person who stopped us was an economics professor at BYU. He is the one that filed the suit. I
don't know if he has any other money behind him or not, but he is
the one who stopped us. And he stopped us because he sain they
didn't need the type or road we were putting through tha~ canyon.
Pure and simple. And the judge decided he had better hear more
about it and ·so there is an j.njunction on it. That is the kind of
problem we run into.
Comment: I appreciate all that you have to go through, but I still
wonder if that low priority is all we are going to get.
)
Todd Weston: -'Well, I guess we are a little bit like a squeaky
wheel. If the demand is there strong enough and we can justify it
then we are going to move faster where we can. But when I say
16
�(
Logan Canyon has low priority, I've got to say it has low priority
compared to 1-15, it has low priority compared to probably a dozen
other projects in District 1 and we are only one District in the
state.
Don Huffener: You mentioned the squeaky wheel.
I was at the meeting you had in Logan, too and you mentioned it again here, that in
the summertime is the big volume of traffic and 80% of that traffic
is through traffic all the way through the canyon. Most of those
people never get heard because they are not from Logan or here, so
Todd Weston:
Don Huffener:
picked it up.
I think we have some better figures than that.
Well, I stopped down at Valley Engineering and
Todd Weston to CH2M Hill:
Is that your statement?
Sheldon: The people who start through the canyon, 80% go all the
way through the canyon rather th~n stop in the canyon to recreate.
,
Don Huffener: So the majority of the people who use the canyon
aren't getting a hearing on this. The other thing is at the other
meeting your spokesperson said that the ID committee was unanimous
in their desire to keep Logan Canyon .as a destination. Your
spokeswoman said that. I'm sure I am right. So, the pass through
traffic, how much consideration are they getting? That was a
statement from your office.
Stan Nuffer:
I think she might have been misunderstood.
COffirr;ent:
She was implying that they want to make Logan Canyon a
and recreational :area, where people come into the
canyon, recreate and then go home.
de~~ination
Cliff: That is the desire of many people to make it that way.
I
guess the way to answer that is that you really have two views, and
I don't see anything that is going to keep both of these from being
answered.
John Murphy: When I first cam~ to tr~ valley about 15 years ago I
was looking for a place to buy some suppli~s and I soon found
another route to Ogden and on through. Going on a dirt road in the
south ena of the valley down there, which is called
Canyon, which is 500 feet lower than your Logan Pass; it doesn't
have any environmental problems, there is no river to fight, you
can go down into Ogden and · it is 15 minutes longer than using your
superhighway through Logan Canyon •. So if the people in Logan are
so upset about the environmental impact of us people who live and
drive the canyon, rather than those that stop and turn around and
go home, why don't they build us a road into Ogden? We could get
to Ogden in the same time it takes to get to Logan. Re-route
17
�Highway 89 up through Cottonwood, up through the flats up there, no
river, basic road is facing south, so the sun does most of the
clearing for you rather than snow plowing; it goes to the area of
Monte Cristo, we can go on down there and get our supplies, route
the tourists through there, and Logan can have their canyon and go
up there and recreate and turn around and go home.
(Applause)
My name is Ernest Henry, with the Bridgerland Audobon Society in
Logan, and I would like to second what was mentioned earlier.
Environmental groups aren't out to stop everything and anything,
but we do have distinct and definite concerns about Logan Canyon.
That is why I am here tonight. There is nothing I'd rather be
doing that be home tonight, but I'm here because I'm very concerned
about the quality of the environment in Logan Canyon. So, we will
work with you, and compromise, but I do have one concern. Something that has been repeatedly stated and stated here tonight and
often times stated in the paper and that is that a big impediment
to your economic development and the economic development of Bear
Lake is the Logan Canyon road, that if it was somehow improved, the
economy would be better. That may be true, I don't know, but one
thing I have yet to see is any facts on that.
Comment: MOVE OVER HERE. Try driving the canyon twice a week and
you would change your mind.
.~
UDOT:
I'd like to make a comment on the alternate route. We have
looked at it and an alternate route would cost about 1.2 to 2
million per mile. We don't have that kind of money right now. We
do feel that two decades from now that will be a realistic alternative to look at. Right now the money we have available is to
improve the facility we have built. I hope you are right about the
environmental situation. When we get there I'm afraid there might
be more problems that we anticipate, but alternate ro~tes have been
lQ~l~~d at but at this time we don't feel the availability of funds
makes it a viable alternate. We need to be upgrading what we have
here.
Comment: Just one comment about alternate routes. Someone must be
sniffing glue if they tried an alternate route through Hodges
Canyon. It is almost impossible to get through. You would never
see a snow plow out. So the studies you are doing on alternate
routes are not very well done. The other route that original
pioneers used which is pretty ,:"lose ' : 0 your yellow route is a much
better route. NOw, I talked to some of the old timers who worked on
the route that we've got now and they said those crazy guys from
Salt Lake City don't know how to build a road, but since tht.~y are
paying us, we'll build it anyhow. The y~llow route does look like
it is . ~ better route.
.j
UDOT: The yellow route is the principal route at this point, but
we did indicate to the consultant that we wanted to look at some
alternatives. We they took some geotechnical data and they have
indicated that the green route is not desirable, but that the
yellow one is, again we are going to have to look at that when it
�comes time to getting the property and alignment, which will be in
the latter stages of the whole study. But we will probably be
working with the county people and if we can establish that that is
a desirable route, and the local people are in agreement, then we
will work with the county commission in reserving the rights of way
so we don't have to come in unprepared. But that is the principal
route at this time.
CH2M Hill:
Comment:
my eyes.
We share your conclusions about the green route.
Do you?
I saw what you were doing and I couldn't believe
Comment: I was wondering, the lower part of the canyon that has
been improved, was there any data before so that you can compare
the impact that it has had on the lower route so you might have
some information to apply to the higher route? Is that being
considered?
Stan: We have looked at all the data we can get. Unfortunately,
the safety data, the basis has changed, so it is kind of hard to
draw conclusions. We just have to go along with what is nationally
accepted approaches to these kinds of problems.
/
Barry Negus: One. concern I have is if you change to an alternate
route on the lower portion here, what are the people going to do?
What is going to happen to the existing road there now and what is
going to have to be done for the people that are living along that
route to get out in the winter?
Lynn Zollinger: If we realign the highway to another locations, it
doesn't mean the other one will be clos~d, we'd probably say we
would turn it over to Rich County to maintain and plow.
Comment:
Don't do
~~at.
(laughter)
Lynn Zollinger: The UDOT is not likely to maintain two routes.
disposition of the old route would have to be resolved.
The
Comment: I would like to ask the gentleman from the Audobon
Society if he is a native of the area, is hea student at ~he
college, do you live in Logan as a temporary position the~e, what
is your impact personally on improvements in the canyon or is this
just an assignment you have f::.-:>m thE: college or Audobon Society?
... .,-
Ernest Henry: No, I was born in Cincinna~i, Ohio; my parents moved
to Albuqu~rque in 1969. I got a bachelors degree from Colc.rado
State in Wildlife Biology in 1979. I lJoved to Logan to attend
graduate school and I have a masters degree in Range Science there
and I now work with the USDA in the agricultural research service
doing research in alfalfa growth and I am a member of the Audobon
Society because it is something I believe -in and am interested in •
So, anyway, I live and work in Logan right now and I intend to stay
there for the foreseeable future.
19
�Comment:
What do you think about the problems on the road?
Ernest Henry: I think there are two major environmental problems I
see with road construction. One is the river itself, water quality, quantity, diverting it, changing it from something that is
rather free flowing with biological integrity to something that is
riprapped and has little biologica~ integrity, and also I think the
scenic value of the canyon is important. If your only interest is
in economic development, I don't think you can deny that something
that is going to bring people to this area is the scenic quality of
Logan Canyon. It is an important aspect to this area. It is a
recreational resource, granted more in Logan's favor than in Bear
Lake's favor. But it is a recreational resource of significance
and that shouldn't be overlooked.
Comment: I'm just glad to know a transplant from the Sierra Club
in Oklahoma.
Comment: I don't think it matters wher~ we are from, but I think
the thing that this gentleman is stating and what the residents
from this side of the hill are willing to work with them. We don't
want to change the whole canyon. We think there are improvements
that can and should be made and as a community we all feel that
way.
Comment: We all love the canyon.
We don't want it spoiled.
We do.
We want it preserved.
Comment: And I think we are all saying the same thing allover
again. We want quality, but we also want some improvements and I
think it is possible to work with them if we can just get on with
it. Let's work together and get it done.
Richard Mills: Have you as the state studied the other road coming
in from Salt Lake and Evanston in the summer as far as ~oad
counters?
Stan Nuffer:
proposed?
Are you talking about the existing highway or those
Richard Mills: The existing highway. You have a traffic study,
right? You have two counters .. one Q....)ing north and one coming into
Garden C.ity. : . .ave they done anything coming in from Evan~.~on UF
over Laketown Canyon?
Stan Nuffer: We are somewhat familia~ with the state procedures.
They have permanent traffic counters allover the state.
UDOT: We no longer have a permanent counter in Laketown Canyon,
but they do annual studies. Sometimes they vary from a week or a
day. But because of lesser volumes they don't go to the expense of
a full time permanent counter there, but they use statistic projection methods to get a short count and project it. to a longer count.
20
�Stan Nuffer: They have a guide that is called "Traffic on Utah
Highways that is published biannually that lists all this traffic
information and I'm sure you could get a copy of that.
Richard Mills: My point is if you would study that information you
would probably f.ind out that as people get more scared of Logan
Canyon, they are probably coming around the other way. A good
share of the people that come in are from Salt Lake and Ogden.
Stan Nuffer: I don't know if you can draw tha~ kind of conclusion
from the data that is there, but it could be looked at.
Joe West: I'm wondering how bad the lower end of the canyon looks
now. I remember when that was rebuilt; realigned and they were
fighting on that, and that was what stopped them from going on up
into the canyon. I'd be interested in knowing how that looks 'now
that the growth is back up. I can see that when construction goes
on you are going to have a problem for a year or two, but growth
comes back. I heard one man say that th~t was the first time he
went down Logan Canyon and saw anything but the yellow line. You
know, before the rest of this canyon gets built, the lower end of
the canyon is going to be obsolete.
J
stan: We hope to get at least the same standard throughout the
whole canyon. Beyond that, if traffic continues to increase, there
might need to be alternate routes looked at to take some of the
pressure.
Joe West: I'd like to ask the Audobon Society how the lower end of
the canyon looks to him.
Ernest Henry: My general reaction is that it doesn't look that
bad. Nevertheles~ . I don't think you, call just say, "Okay, there it
t worked." We don't want to take any chances. I guarantee you that.
We arc not out just to slow things up but we want it to stay a
recreational resource second to none. I'd like to make another
comment and this is strictly factual. As I mentioned I lived in
Colorado for a while and if you think this battle over a road was
somethin<3', Glenwood was an a\'lesome battle. That was on interstate
70 that went on for years and years and years. And they finally
worked something out. I think Ch2M Hill would do well to look at
some of the approaches that we~e use~ there.
Stan Nuffer:
We were involved in that process.
Jim Naegle: Two months ago we visited Glenwood Canyon, and we
built the Interstate 15 through the
River by St. George at
$1,000,000 per mile and we thought that was a great cost for building a road. The 12 miles of Glenwood Canyon now cost 14 million to
put a bike path through, and 235 million dollars to build the road
and it is because of tradeoffs with the envizonmental organizations. I want to add just this. That UDOT is more environmentally
sensitive than we have ever been as a Highway Department; some of
21
�it from need and some of it from desire. The lower part of the
canyon wasn't as environmentally sensitive as the middle portion of
the canyon. We are intent on building a facility that will accommodate as much as possible. We are willing to make tradeoffs. We
are looking for tradeoffs with the environmental people, the forest
service and the Highway Dept. We want to get in and build the best
highway with the least amount of impact that can be done. And we
will be keeping you people appraised as to our progress on that,
but we need your input and your support as to how you feel and that
is why we appreciate your 'coming tonight. It is our intent to
build something that will serve us as best as possible and to minimize the impacts. ~hat's the tradeoffs we are looking for.
Cliff: Maybe as a summary comment, we can still have more questions, but I would carry it a step further than what Jim said.
Other than the time that it takes to complete the study, which I
'would agree with is intolerable from your perspective, but other
than. the time I'm not pessimistic as to how this will turn out. In
fact I'm rather optimistic as Dave Baumgarner and others have
stated that we are going to be able ~o f~nd some common ground that
satisfies the environmental needs and still gives you a good road
through the canyon that you all deserve. So, I wouldn't be pessimistic about it, but I would be careful to take the time to make
your presence known, even if it takes going to Logan to do it. We
need toe input and we need a balanced input.
J
Comment: I'm been on a committee representing this area for a number of years when we first started these studies, and I know when
we got the information on this study we requested you come here and
we do appreciate your coming here because it is cumbersome to
travel that road in the wintertime. We want you to know we do
appreciate your coming here and we hope you appreciate the impact
the canyon has on the people on this side of the mountain. There
are a lot of peop'~ from Bear Lake County . that have some concerns.
We . would strongly ·~ncourage you to continue to hold some meetings
over here and not to look at sheer numbers, but you are talking
about real users and real business people, not an organized group
by any means like you might find in Logan, because I listened to
them and I've seen their tables etc. but please continue to come
over here and keep us informed. I would suggest you may even
explore the idea of holding a meeting in Salt Lake City, because
that affects a lot of those people Don Huffener was talking about
that travel through here const::!.ntly ~. nd a majority of those people
are in ~he ' Wa3atch Front.
CH2M Hill: We spoke with them today and they let it be kno\7n that
they expect to see us.
Comment: Good. Also you might consider that the next time you
have a meeting in here if you hold it on a summer night and a
Friday night you'll get some of those same types of people and
you'll get a good cross section •.
Stan Nuffer:
That is a good idea, thank you.
22
I
�I'm Cliff Brown and I'm a member of the town council in Laketown
and I just think that the beauty of the canyon is out of this world
at time, nobody disagrees with that. I'm also an EMT and I've
driven the ambulance through there through all kinds of weather. I
think we need to keep in mind that that road is our lifeline to the
outside world. We are up here isolate otherwise. There are a
couple of other places we can travel, but this is our main
lifeline, between here and Logan and I think that is what we need
to keep in mind.
Question: Are there any preliminary plans as far as re-routing the
existing road in places?
Do you have any plans there at all?
Stan Nuffer: We are just getting started in that ·process. We want
to get your input first and then we will get into that process.
(
)
Comment: As you drive through the canyon, in reference to the gentleman's comments about riprapping the river, as I drive through
the canyon I see very few places where th0se kinds of places are
going to exist and where the road possibly could be moved completely away from the river and actually add to the quality of the
river instead of pushing the snow (I'm sure you are concerned about
the salts that come off into the river and environmentally impact
it that way.) But just driving through and seeing where some
improvements can be made I don't see where there is that much that
will impact the river, just by doing a few minor things.
Comments: Along . with your accident statistics have you ever
thought about having almosts? You should request people to send in
and report how many times they have "almost" been wiped out. (lots
of laughter)
.
Comment:
That wOllld affect
aL~ost everyL~J.y,
wouldn't it?
Commen~:
Gale Larson went up there traffic counting and almost got
hit himself.
Comment: If any of you would like to write your comments I've got
some busin=ss cards here that you can pick up on your way out.
Stan Nuffer: If we have no more comments, some of you who felt to
shy to speak in public, we'll be here for a while. Come up and
look a~ the raps and drawings. : Is there anyone else that: want'"'d to
make a comment?
Comment: I'm John Hansen, and I don't think it has been brought up
that
We all do a lot of business on
the other side of the hill and I'm very much concerned about the
safety and while we talk a lot about the environment, but I wonder,
since when do we place a higher value on plant and animal life than
we do on human life? That is what has crossed my mind quite a bit.
It looks to me like we are here tonight as a community to express
this.
23
�
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Comments on the Logan Canyon CH2M HILL presentation
Description
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Answers to questions from the public about proposed changes to Logan Canyon.
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Nielson, Bryce
Weston, Todd
Stringham, Brian
Harrison, Alan
Webb, Paul
Zollinger, Lynn
Peterson, William
Wilson, Ted
Webb, Kathy
Huffner, Don
Murphy, John
Henry, Ernest
Negus, Barry
Mills, Richard
West, Joesph
Brown, Cliff
Hansen, John
Nuffer, Stanton S.
Baumgartner, David
Utah. Department of Transportation
CH2M Hill (Firm : Salt Lake City, Utah)
Subject
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United States Highway 89
Logan Canyon (Utah)
Roadside Improvement--Utah--Logan Canyon
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Administrative records
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1986-11-03
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Logan (Utah)
United States
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1980-1989
20th century
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eng
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Utah State University, Merrill-Cazier Library, Special Collections and Archives Sierra Club, Utah Chapter Archives, 1972-1986, COLL MSS 148 Series VIII Box 27 Folder 10
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View the inventory for this collection at: <a href="http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv03390">http://uda-db.orbiscascade.org/findaid/ark:/80444/xv03390</a>
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Reproduction for publication, exhibition, web display or commercial use is only permissible with the consent of the USU Libraries Photograph Curator, phone (435) 797-0890.
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Highway 89 Digital Collections
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Text
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MSS148VIIIB27_Fd10_Page_2.pdf
Highway 89;